Locke's Item's - Alpert's Reaction

[D-Roc]

(individual post brought over from ABC Cabin Fever Forum):

This was one of my favourite scenes of Lost ever. It appeared that Locke was "supposed" to choose the vile of ash and the book of Laws..perhaps both..as you said, it wasn't until he chose the knife that richard's expression soured. I think this all ties in with the things that our Losties are "supposed" to do and "not supposed" to do - a big theme in Lost over the past season or so. It's almost as if Richard was seeing if Locke was 'ready' - did he have something to do with Locke's arrival into the world? Seems likely..I'd even suggest that maybe..just maybe Richard is Locke's 'real' father - afterall, Emily's mom made reference to the father being 'twice her age' - another age reference relating to Richard? Another idea I had is that Locke was switched at birth - where did they take him, and was Apert involved in a swtcheroo? Eitherway, it does seem likely that Locke was a Mittelos baby, who was 'destined' for greatness..

What also interests me in relation to this scene is that Alpert seemed fairly happy with several of young John's selections - could he have chosen more than one item..do several of these items belong to him?

Here's an illustrative breakdown of the scene:

Baseball Glove - Redsox allusion - is this Jack's future??


Book of Laws - Laws relating to the island??


Vile of what seems to be Ash - similar to the Ash around Jacob's cabin in 3.20? - Is this relating to Jacob's future??


"Hidden Land" Comic - an allusion to the 'hidden' island? Is this related to Walt's future?? Walt had a similar comic back in season..


Knife - this would appear to be relating to Locke's future..yet Alpert was displeased with his selection? Why?? Is this becase time is on a loop and Alpert needs Locke to be something 'different' this time around??



----------------------

Alpert's reaction after Locke considers the vile of 'ash'. He looked excited..:


Alpert looks pleased after Locke puts down the compass:


Alpert looks most excited as Locke considers the Book of Laws - was this the choice he was "supposed" to make?:


When Locke chooses the knife, Alpert looks disappointed - Locke has made the wrong choice, despite it seeming to be the most logical choice from a viewers perspective:


As noted, i think that the correct choice according to Alpert was the Book of Laws. I'm wondering whether Locke wasn't supposed to choose the knife because time is on a loop, and Alpert needs Locke to be someone different - i.e. not the hunter than the island (via Eko) told him that he was? Perhaps 'this' time, the island needs Locke to be more of a philosopher, than a hunter?

I'm also wondering whether the other items related to some of our other Losties - Bassball glove to Jack..Comic to Walt..Compass to Sayid..Ash to Jacob?..

Furthermore, I found this interesting - upon thinking back to the brig Alpert tells Locke:

"It's beautiful isn't it? No matter how much time you spend on this island, you just never get tired of this view. We haven't been formally introduced, I'm Richard.........Cause when word got back here that there was a man with a broken spine on the plane who could suddenly walk again, well, people here began to get very excited because that...that could only happen to someone who was extremely special. Ben doesn't want anyone to think you're special, John..........I want for you to find your purpose...and to do that...your father has to go, John. And since you're not gonna do it..."

Note the last paragraph - Alpert wants Locke to find his purpose - isn't this very much what he wanted him to do back as a child in the early 1960's! Alpert has seemingly waited all this time for Locke to find his purpose..shaping him..keeping tabs on him down the years, from childhood, to teenage, to when he broke his spine..helping him to rehabilitate...waiting patiently..

So it seems that Locke was engineered by Mittelos..created for a 'purpose'..or that they somehow knew (through Jacob?) that he would be 'the one'..otherwise why would Alpert have been there at his birth..?

I also think that this aspect of Locke's history is VERY similar to Ben's as a child and the way he was recruited by Alpert..although perhaps Ben's 'specialness' was more of a suprise to Alpert.

[The_abbott]

I would have picked the comic and read it

But I think Alpert wanted him to think "Island" not "Murder" I mean the knife ends up in Naomi's back and Alpert probably knew this

[The_abbott]

eh? duplicate post is the island telling me I'm a clone?

[Kiowa Warrior]

What I posted in the ABC forum:


Every object except for the knife is placed directly on the table but the knife is laid on top of the comic, perhaps to suggest that this Hidden Land needs the knife's protection? If the Island's Laws/Morals/Rules needed protecting more than the Island itself, why not place the knife on the Book of Laws?

Or perhaps the knife doesn't signify protection but rather violence and destruction, and Richard wasn't happy that Locke opted for that. I do quite like the idea that Richard has been around (time wise) a lot, and that he might have hoped that Locke's real purpose lay in the oppostie direction of the knife, and that he travelled back in time to see if Locke himself knew this because something may have happened to Locke on the Island to prevent him from fulfilling it...that Locke had had plenty of time with the knife after crashing - to get the Walkabout fantasy out of his system - but had yet to begin on a greater purpose. It's confusing!

Another thing with the knife on the comic could always be the position of it, in that the blade is pointing at Locke rather than the handle. I remember some theories/observations from way back in S1 when Locke was dishing out the knives to people and would make efforts to ensure whether it was blade or handle he offered (like with Sayid before he tortured Sawyer it was initially offered blade first but Locke did a nifty little flick to turn it around to the handle.) If you're offering a kid the opportunity to pick up a knife, is it not an initital thought to make sure the handle is nearest him not only to minimise any danger from it, but to make it less threatening?

This really was such a great scene - nice and confusing once you start to have a good think about it - but still great. And bless Young Locke with that foster family to put up with!

If Richard really didn't think Locke had what it took, why then try and contact him again when he was a teenager? Maybe Richard is just a good actor and Young Locke really was supposed to take the knife, so Richard pretended that he had failed just to see what Locke would be like growing up in the 'real world' without his influence...to see if his assessment - his correct assessment - of Locke being special was correct.

Locke doesn't pick up the glove, yet when he's a teenager speaking with his teacher he tells him that he loves sports, and denies any interest in science. Which he is probably lying about, because Locke has just said that it's things like Science Camp that result him getting trapped in his locker.

So he really does like Science but does his best to pursade others - to pursade himself - that he doesn't, because it will give him an easier life. Which you can't blame him for after all.

Or maybe he really does like sports and non-science things but he's just good - very good - at science, and as much as he tries to deny it such natural talent just comes through. And while he may be a Scientist he doesn't consider himself one, because that would be to define himself as something - as someone - he consiously doesn't want to be, and given his life even up until that relatively young age, who can blame him for wanting some control in his life to choose what to do and where to belong? Maybe he's not a Scientist in the typical lab coat and chemical experiments type, but more like a Natural Scientist - a biologist or something with a natural and powerful affinity with nature. Maybe that's why the Island cured him, and locked into that 2% chance he had of ever getting the feeling back in his legs?

Very interesting things to consider! And is just further proof that Locke is the heart of the show and is special and wonderful and destined for great things

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Note the last paragraph - Alpert wants Locke to find his purpose - isn't this very much what he wanted him to do back as a child in the early 1960's! Alpert has seemingly waited all this time for Locke to find his purpose..shaping him..keeping tabs on him down the years, from childhood, to teenage, to when he broke his spine..helping him to rehabilitate...waiting patiently..

So it seems that Locke was engineered by Mittelos..created for a 'purpose'..or that they somehow knew (through Jacob?) that he would be 'the one'..otherwise why would Alpert have been there at his birth..?

I can't really think of any reason (well at the moment) to explain Richard's patient waiting at Locke's birth other than he knew that Locke would be born there, either because Mittelos did have a hand in creating him, or perhaps Richard was just at the hospital on the lookout for some future test subjects and happened by chance across Locke, to a lesser extent he did with Ben?

Maybe Richard patiently waited for Locke through all of his pathetic little life because, as Locke himself said, struggle is nature's way of stengthening? Perhaps Locke had to go though all of what he did to truly appreciate the Island when he landed there, and so become more open - more amenable - to its influences and more likely to be open minded as to everything that happened on it? I reckon Richard knew Locke was special and someone needed for the Island from his birth or after the test, and may have wanted to see how Locke got on in the real world. Or maybe all that bad luck in his life was punishment for failing Richard's object test! Poor John...

[lost-lover]

I loved this scene. The whole way through I was trying to guess what items Locke would pick in comparison to what he "should" be picking.
Was Alpert trying to recruite Locke? The knife, as you've said seems to be his logical choice and yet that was the item which clinched Alpert's displeasure, perhaps even disgust? Since he seemed to have been tracking Locke's life I'm curious as to just what items he wanted Locke to take - and why he wanted him to take them.
Also, the main thing I'm curious about is whther or not Locke would have chose these items if he'd be under less pressure. Did he take those items because he was drawn to them, or did he take them because he thought that Alpert wanted him to choose them?
Another point I'd like to make is that despite this "failure" of the item test, Alpert continues to try to recruit Locke - the science camp as a teenager. I wonder if Alpert thinks Locke's view's have changed by this point, or if he just wants Locke to fufill his destiny. If it's a time loop, did he need Locke for something?

[monster-eats-pilot]

That was ash I thought it was sand

[lost-lover]

MEP

[monster-eats-pilot]

I am an idiot

[lost-lover]

No, it did look like sand. Could have been sand from the island's beach

[monster-eats-pilot]

I thought Richard wanted him to choose the knife. But giving a knife to a child in the first place, come on Richard

[lost-lover]

Especially blade first. So dangerous.
Seriously though, didn't the way you hand over a knife, point-first or handle-first, mean something about friends or enemies. Richard held it out blade first, so despite trying to recruite Locke does he regard him as a potential enemy? Or was he subconiously trying to keep Locke from choosing the knife?