Official 4.08 Episode Discussion

[monster-eats-pilot]

We finally see something to do with christmas

[JB Sawyer]

Good episode. Final scene saved it. That is the first time in a long time where Lost has got me; i.e. "Bloody hell, didn't see that coming". So that's the main reason behind it's high rating.

However I can't believe Danielle is dead. She needs to have a flashback, and it's been promised for a long time by the writers that she will. So my guess is she'll live or the next episode will be her flashback and she'll die at the end of it.

Does anyone else think (I haven't read any other posts in this mini forum) that Ben sent Danielle and Karl to their deaths? We know, and it was further established, that Ben cares about Alex more than possibly anything else. We all saw the way he looked at Karl and the contempt he must hold towards Rousseau. So does anyone else think that Ben sent Danielle, Karl and Alex to The Temple, knowing that whoever it was would shoot them? Would also explain why Alex was not popped off instantly.

Michael bores me. Simple as that. Even as Kevin Johnson he bores me. He's like Sun and Jin, I just can't connect to their characters and so I really don't care about them. So for the majority of the Michael stuff I really couldn't care to be honest.

A good enough episode as any to end on, and those who can stand or care about Michael will presumably be very pleased.

Meet Kevin Johnson - 8/10

[Lauren [is Lost]]

To be honest, i thought this episode was a bit of an anti-climax. I was expecting something amazing and i didn't really get it. It was good to see Michael's story post-island and how he ended up on the freighter, and i liked the stuff with him & Tom, but i do think his flashback dragged on for too long - it must have been more than half the episode! I also thought the Ben vs. Widmore stuff was quite interesting. But the trailer for this ep looked much more exciting than what it actually was. I knew someone died and i thought it was going to be a major character...and i was also expecting much more on-island stuff about Locke's camp. But still, it was quite a good episode. I gave it 7/10. I'm glad the cliffhanger at the end wasn't too dramatic because that would have annoyed me!! Can't believe Rousseau is dead but i'm not surprised Karl is. I want to know who shot them...my guess is the freighties.

But anyway...bring on Season 4, part 2!!

[monster-eats-pilot]

I liked the long flashback, it was exactly like Flashes before your eyes.
I wasnt expecting anything amazing because I knew I'd probably be let down after the season peaked for me in 'The constant'
The ending was pretty good, it kinda ending at a random time, Alex just shouted 'IM BEN'S DAUGHTER' and a quick pan of the jungle and that was it

[Beach Crew]

(Ok, so firstly, nobody told me how hard it would be to type with false nails - this is ridiculous! )

I have to agree, I thought it was a bit anti-climatic. I mean, it was good and I enjoyed it but I was still slightly....I don't know, I was expecting something big and really exciting, but it wasn't as big or as exciting as I was hoping.

I love how Mike quickly fell back in my good books - well, sort of. I recall at the end of season two declaring that I would never forgive him, or speak to him again, and I hope something bad happened to him. However, have way through his first suicide attempt I was already, "Oh Mike, don't - we love you!". It's just something about Mike that makes me feel bad - perhaps it's the fact that he did everything for his son who was ultimately ungrateful.

Sawyer - how I love him. He totally hasn't forgotten what Mike did to him but I thought he looked so curious when Mike was mentioned. Let's not forget at one point they were like best friends - I reall hope they have some interaction.

Did we need Libby though? She scares me so and it was just weird.

I love that it was confirmed that Tom is gay, I've had my suspicions since, "You're not my type Kate," lol. He seems a friendly chap though, and I'm beginning to think he's rather important since he keeps cropping up in flashbacks and stuff. And I can't believe he could get off the island too! So mean to Jules.

As for Ben - personally I think he sent Karl and Danielle to their deaths. That scene was awesome too! I loved it! Totally shocked the heck out of me though and poor Karl! Poor, sweet Karl. And who is it? What's gonna happen to Alex?

Good eppy, with a decent cliffie but I wish it had been more dramatic.

[monster-eats-pilot]

Originally Posted by Beach Crew

(Ok, so firstly, nobody told me how hard it would be to type with false nails - this is ridiculous! )

Don't get your nail stuck to the keyboard like I once did

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by JB Sawyer

Does anyone else think (I haven't read any other posts in this mini forum) that Ben sent Danielle and Karl to their deaths? We know, and it was further established, that Ben cares about Alex more than possibly anything else. We all saw the way he looked at Karl and the contempt he must hold towards Rousseau. So does anyone else think that Ben sent Danielle, Karl and Alex to The Temple, knowing that whoever it was would shoot them? Would also explain why Alex was not popped off instantly.

OK so everybody thought this

[*SP*]

I really liked this epi, even though I'm not a big Michael fan. Lots of answers just before the break. I can't believe how despised Ben is universally on this forum. How many more hints do people need that he's a bloody good guy!!!??? So sweet of him to say he wouldn't just kill innocent people on the freighter. Killing with conscience...now that's something we don't see often in Lost. Most of the 'killers' have done so for their own needs or desires but Ben seems to genuinely be motivated by something external. Selfish this man is not. Saving the world/island from the evil widmore seems to be top of his agenda and I just don't see how people hate him so. I can't wait til the day y'all have to eat your words and accept that Ben is one of Lost's real heroes.

I'm a tad tipsy so the only other thing I'd say right now is how bloody frustrating was Sayid. I rather liked him after his understated performance in The Constant but OMG!, what was he thinking!! The fool! Does he not realise how much he has jeopordised by marching Michael to the captain. I nearly threw tthe telly out of the window I was so mad!

And Michael drew me in all over again. Never been a fan as such but how my heart went out to him for the torment he went through. Though as Ben ointed out, no one instructed him to kill Ana and Libby...there could been an alternative to shooting them both in order to set Henry/Ben free. I do understand the parental determination though. I'd have easily done the same ting to save one of my kids.

All in a really great episode. Can't wait til after the break!!!!!

[Hordriss]

[quote=*SP*;251080]I really liked this epi, even though I'm not a big Michael fan. Lots of answers just before the break. I can't believe how despised Ben is universally on this forum. How many more hints do people need that he's a bloody good guy!!!??? So sweet of him to say he wouldn't just kill innocent people on the freighter. Killing with conscience...now that's something we don't see often in Lost. Most of the 'killers' have done so for their own needs or desires but Ben seems to genuinely be motivated by something external. Selfish this man is not. Saving the world/island from the evil widmore seems to be top of his agenda and I just don't see how people hate him so. I can't wait til the day y'all have to eat your words and accept that Ben is one of Lost's real heroes.

I'm a tad tipsy so the only other thing I'd say right now is how bloody frustrating was Sayid. I rather liked him after his understated performance in The Constant but OMG!, what was he thinking!! The fool! Does he not realise how much he has jeopordised by marching Michael to the captain. I nearly threw tthe telly out of the window I was so mad!

And Michael drew me in all over again. Never been a fan as such but how my heart went out to him for the torment he went through. Though as Ben ointed out, no one instructed him to kill Ana and Libby...there could been an alternative to shooting them both in order to set Henry/Ben free. I do understand the parental determination though. I'd have easily done the same ting to save one of my kids.

All in a really great episode. Can't wait til after the break!!!!!

[D-Roc]

Meet Kevin Johnson is an episode about guilt and redemption; it's an episode about choices and 'doing the right thing'. More often than not, such choices are never easy, neither is redemption. Guilt however, that is an emotion which attaches itself with ease.

So, we find out what happened to Michael upon his return 'home' - down and out, with a son who doesn't want to know him - much like pre-Oceanic 815. However context offers a greater insight into why, for Michael, leaving the island was not such a good thing. Riddled with guilt and self-loathing, he confided in his son and told him of the sacrifice others had to pay for his release. Disgusted and sickened by his father’s actions, Walt shows just why children are so special - their morals are not skewed by the product of adulthood or by the notion of 'the greater good'. Life is pink and blue to kids - much like Locke's metaphor to Walt in the third episode of the first season - "two sides" - for Michael there were choices..options, but he did what he thought was best to get his son back. Like Ben, I don't blame him - although it took me a while to get over what he did to Ana-Lucia - after all, what man wouldn't do anything to protect his son? It's right there that we have the conflict: actions = consequence, there's no denying that, and likewise leaving the island is never the end of the story. As hinted earlier by bearded Jack's failed suicide attempt, the island is more than just an island - it will latch onto you and keep you on its strings, not letting you die unless it's on its terms..unless you come back...

A most interest reveal, one which further establishes the island as a character, as a creator and controller of fates and futures, of destiny and salvation. In this situation a person has no will, even if they're willing. This 'protection', however unwanted, explains so much - it gives us possible insight into why the people on future Ben's list are so afraid that Sayid is coming for them, since one would now assume that Sayid also cannot die. Same goes for Jack, Hurley and the rest of the Oceanic 6, perhaps?. Least not off-island - is this why Jack so desperately wants to 'go back' - so that he can finally die?

But then what of the man in the coffin? ..he died off-island. More proof that this man is indeed Ben..a man who has recently been at odds with the land which raised him and allowed him to get sick? (assuming Ben didn't will himself to be sick, that is..)

I felt that this episode was rushed in places, but the same could be said of most of this seasons episodes. So much so that they can even afford to give us rewarding reveals such as confirmation of Tom's homosexuality. Boone was many people’s favourite for the role, but personally there's something refreshing about Tom's character, there always has been from the moment we saw him thugged-up on the boat in Exodus, he's continued to tear away the mis-perceptions about his character. Good for him..and Arturo

I thought that the scenes on the boat were solid, if not a bit forced in places - to the point of spending 2 minutes on the Keamy shooting scene, which was purely designed to make us speculate his part in the assassination of Karl and Rousseau at the end of the episode. For me it does seem likely that Keamy and Frank (and whoever else from the freighter) are the ones responsible, but my after thought was also Alpert and the Others. This thought was not helped by the earlier scene with Ben sending the threesome off to the "sanctuary" (Temple) - a scene which was brilliantly filmed and acted by Michael Emerson, who along with Harold Perrineau is by far the best actor on this show.

I liked the scene where Ben showed Michael the difference between himself and Widmore - whilst Widmore is a ruthless killer without morals and conscience, Ben doesn't sacrifice innocent people - however muddy this concept is, it is one which I and I’m sure most people can certainly appreciate. After all, this is war and in war people die. But to limit the collateral damage shows conscience and humanity. Ben could easily have armed that bomb and wiped out the freighties - the fact that he didn't speaks volumes and one would hope that all the 'anti-Ben' fervour will subside as his character is clearly on a compass direction which will ultimately palatable for even the most earnest of character dissectors.

Sayid on the other hand, well, he's final been proved wrong about something and it amazes me how he (and people like "that Michael?" Sawyer) can be so judgemental. However hindsight is ironic, isn't it, Sayid..

All in all this was a fantastic episode, although clearly not one constructed to be a finale of any kind - the writers’ strike saw to that, although I do suspect that the writers crow-barred in the assassination of Karl and Rousseau as way of making it 'feel' like it was part of their natural episode 8 arc. Still, I think that this was one of Sarnoff's best episodes to date and I've always loved Michael centric-episodes - Harold Perreneau brings heart and confliction to the show, and I for one and happy that the island didn't let him die...

Please Harold, stay a while?

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by Roco

I liked the scene where Ben showed Michael the difference between himself and Widmore - whilst Widmore is a ruthless killer without morals and conscience, Ben doesn't sacrifice innocent people - however muddy this concept is, it is one which I and I’m sure most people can certainly appreciate. After all, this is war and in war people die. But to limit the collateral damage shows conscience and humanity. Ben could easily have armed that bomb and wiped out the freighties - the fact that he didn't speaks volumes and one would hope that all the 'anti-Ben' fervour will subside as his character is clearly on a compass direction which will ultimately palatable for even the most earnest of character dissectors.

Sorry, but it hasn't been confirmed that Widmore is the one that is lying yet has it? It's still very much in the air whether Widmore or Ben are telling the truth; and there's many that believe it's Widmore as well as many who believe it's Ben. And as far as killing innocents it certainly seems as though, and you yourself has alluded to this, that Ben sent Danielle and Karl to their deaths. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but Danielle and Karl were still innocent, unless, of course, you count being in love with someone who actually isn't your daughter as a right to lose your innocence.

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Please Harold, stay a while?

Or don't. I prefer the latter.