Ben: Mass Murderer?

[JB Sawyer]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

You'd be surprised how many people get suspicious and paranoid over these kinds of things. Coverups need to be done carefully, as there are people all over the place looking for them. Ben would have had to be very careful that everything was just right. An example is Frank calling up after seeing Seth didn't have a wedding ring on.

But Frank was connected, he would have looked at miniscule details. The people that found it wouldn't have, and the authoraties who dealt with it (that's to say they weren't working with Ben) would have tried to sweep it under the carpet and just get it over with. They wouldn't have allowed anyone who would be interested in getting close enough to get to that detail.

Sorry guys but I'm sticking to Dharma Purge.

[D-Roc]

Nah, I genuinely don't think Ben murdered 300 odd people in order to fake the wreckage. I'm not being defensive - I honestly don't see that being the case and it never even crossed my mind until I saw this thread. You can see my thoughts which I posted a few weeks ago here, which shows that I did believe that Ben planted the wreckage, however he need not have had to kill anyone to do that.

I believe that he either had the money to acquire ready-made 'bodies', or more likely, he used the Casimir effect/teleportation/duplication thing that some of us discussed a few weeks ago - the basic premise being that one entity can be replicated and teleported to another part of the world - take the Polar bear in Tunisia, for example. I'm certain that this is how Dharma got a polar bear to the dessert. Ben even underlined this concept in last weeks episode, when he commented on Locke's rabbit dinner - "This didn't have a number on it, did it?" - Ben/Dharma painted numbers on rabbits so that they could tell them apart after they duplicated/replicated them - this was because if the two identical entities should ever meet it would cause a 'paradox' - something which was not "Supposed" to happen..something being in two places at once (or rather, the same place at once).

I feel that this is basically how Ben (or whoever, but i'm sticking to Ben) 'replicated' the plane wreckage - some form of Casimir-effect. I think he did it to protect the island and to keep people (i.e. Widmores of this world) off the scent. The real question for me is WHEN (not if) he did this - did he do it pre-2005 or after people got off the island. If it's the first option, then this indicates some foresight (powers of prediction) or plain old preparation for all of the possibilities.

[The_abbott]

Its probably Horace and Olivia and co LOL!!

[Lauren [is Lost]]

I agree with what Roco said. I think it was Ben who staged the crash, but i think he has enough money to get a load of bodies without needing to kill 300-odd random people. The bodies in the fake wreckage were probably clones or something along those lines. I think it was Ben because he has a motive - if the wreckage was found people would stop looking for the island, and that's exactly what Ben wants.

[Murgatroyd]

Not that I think much of Ben, but I agree with Roco here: there has to be a narrative reason for all the doubt surrounding the captain, and we do have the possibility of cloning to fall back on. Besides, that bloke who wasn't the pilot did, nonetheless, look an awful lot like Seth Whatsname. I'm keeping an open mind about it, but while I think Ben already guilty of numerous crimes, this can't automatically be added to it: it's all a bit too up in the air.

(Roco - thanks for fixing my account problems again!)

[Reed]

Poor Ben. He is either in need of serious pyschological assistance or everyone including Mickey Mouse is pointing fingers at him for one reason or another.

Originally Posted by Him

Maybe he kept 300 pickled in a giant jar.

My thoughts exactly.

Originally the Dharma Purge came to mind but 'hindsight' and 'body storage' would have been needed at the time so bodies from the Purge is not certain. Perhaps Ben stole 300 dead bodies from a dozen Morgues in the real world?

I also invest in the Clone idea.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by Reed

Perhaps Ben stole 300 dead bodies from a dozen Morgues in the real world?

Ew ....

[charlierocks]

In the episode where Sawyer and Kate swam for the briefcase(whatever the case may be I think??) They found bodies, still in their seats, with Kate's plane. I could never work out why they showed us that but maybe that was another planted crash, as a practice run for flight 815??

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

Ew ....

Very amusing though yes it is rather sick to say the least.

Originally Posted by charlierocks

In the episode where Sawyer and Kate swam for the briefcase(whatever the case may be I think??) They found bodies, still in their seats, with Kate's plane. I could never work out why they showed us that but maybe that was another planted crash, as a practice run for flight 815??

I always assumed it was from Flight 815 purely because of the 'briefcase' and the fact two people were in plane 'passenger seats'. But it is an interesting theory however. Interestingly, the bodies had eroded quite significantly so perhaps they were NOT from Flight 815 but then I cannot explain the briefcase.

[Kennindra47]

If a plane wreckage was found in the ocean with 300+ bodies and the plane was identified as Oceanic 815, you can bet your ass they would forensically test all of the bodies to confirm who had died in the crash and who, if anyone, was missing. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that 300 random bodies were used. I think Rocco's idea is probably closest. Unless the writers are going to overlook such a serious plot flaw, cloning seems like one of the only logical explanations. I also think Ben planted the plane but doubt he killed 300 people in order to do it.

[Murgatroyd]

Perhaps this is Widmore in part attempting to cover up something he's done - I'll buy Ben's having aged the crash, is the best explanation for he bodies (as I said before, the fake pilot looked like the real pilot - the only difference we know of was the missing ring, not that the guy just looked totally different). I don't actually think there's stoop to (pretending a lot of living people are dead is bad enough in itself, if he really is complicit in that - certainly he care about Zack and Emma's mourning parents), but for complication's sake I suspect more and co are being set up as genuinely worse than Ben and co. So maybe they're using the fact that Ben planted the crash and as a story of to cover something they've done regarding the cloning/bodies that's potentially even worse ....?

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Kennindra47

If a plane wreckage was found in the ocean with 300+ bodies and the plane was identified as Oceanic 815, you can bet your ass they would forensically test all of the bodies to confirm who had died in the crash and who, if anyone, was missing. Therefore, it is highly unlikely that 300 random bodies were used. I think Rocco's idea is probably closest. Unless the writers are going to overlook such a serious plot flaw, cloning seems like one of the only logical explanations. I also think Ben planted the plane but doubt he killed 300 people in order to do it.

September 11 supports this as upwards of 3,000 died as we all very well know. Each [which were not recognisable] were tested by their DNA.

Though you could argue Ben killed the Clones, unless of course the plane/passengers were duplicated the minute they all /crashed/died - somehow.

[monster-eats-pilot]

Originally Posted by monster-eats-pilot

I dont think it was Ben.
I think it could of been Widmore because he wants to find the island and to stop others from ever thinking the Losties are alive he staged the wreckage. Beats me where he got the bodies from but it is Widmore, he has the money.
I just dont see it being Ben.

I was right

Kind of