Zack and Emma

[Murgatroyd]

Quite surprised by the revelation that Zack and Emma were taken because they were 'on the list' (presumably Jacob's list that Tom mentions) rather than simply because they were children. I know that most of the abducted members of the tail-section were taken because they were on the list, but I think there was always a vague assumption that the children were taken because the Others seem to have a bit of of a cult-of-children thing going on. Also interested to see that Ben's reasoning for not returning the children to their mother in LA was not because it was impossible, but because Jacob didn't want it ....

[Losty]

I think Ben just wants to keep the Other species going.

[Murgatroyd]

Yes, I didn't think about the distinct possibility that Ben was lying about who's on the list (or just making the list up as he goes along). Good point.

[firebreathingfishies]

Originally Posted by Losty

I think Ben just wants to keep the Other species going.

lol "species", you make them sound like frogs

But yeah I've always had the feeling that Ben just says 'Jacob wants it' to get his own way. And taking the children would make sense too, seeing as it seems like none of the women can have children on the island. They've got to keep going somehow I suppose

[Reed]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

But yeah I've always had the feeling that Ben just says 'Jacob wants it' to get his own way.

That is quite amusing actually as Ben never has to explain anything he does as all he has to do is continuously repeat "Jacob demands it" or "because Jacob said so".

Regarding the List, we have heard Tom, Mikhail and Ben mention it and I still cannot make of sense of it.

• Tom regarding Jack - "Sheppard was not even on the List"
• Mikhail - "because you are not on the List...... you are flawed"

Anyone care to add to any mentions of the List?

[Him]

This was interesting scene for sure.

The weird thing is that I was under the impression in Season 2, and from the beginning of this episode, that Ben was merely assigning Ethan and Goodwin to create the lists based on their own judgement ("I want lists in three days"). That clearly doesn't seem to be the case when Ben's going on about how he dares not question the judgement of the apparent list-maker(s) (presumably Jacob). Immediately after it, he discusses Goodwin's campaign to recruit Ana-Lucia? I'm confused...

Incidentally, I do believe Ben in this instance, that Goodwin was trying to recruit Ana-Lucia - mainly because he also said the same thing to Ana-Lucia herself. Not to mention the whole flirting thing Goodwin and Ana had going on too.

[Easily confused]

Well here's my understanding of it

Ben has got Juliet to look after the children because he is hoping that Juliet will want to marry him and then want to adopt the children as their own - a nice little ready made family

[KatesFate]

I find it odd how casual Juliet is with Ben about two children who were just in a friggin plane crash and then kidnapped by Ben. I would think that as a woman, let alone a human being, she would be a little upset about these kids being abducted.

Why would Juliet not be mad about this? Is it because she knows they are better off with the others while on the island? Wouldn't she want Jack and everyone else to go and get the children back so they could be rescued too?

Certainly something to think about. Why doesnt anyone want to rescue the children? Kate will go back for just about anyone. What is up with this?

[firebreathingfishies]

I think Ana-Lucia always intended to go and get the kids but then... well, she was shot. There's only Bernard from the tail section now, isn't there? And I can't picture him volunteering for a rescue mission to the others.
I think the beach lot didn't really think about it because they never saw them, and I'm not even sure they are aware of them ... They've all probably been a bit too preoccupied
As for Juliet well... I was a bit surprised how she dealt with it too, although she's probably doing it because she doesn't want to get on Ben's bad side. It's Ben with the problem here, not Juliet. And you dont know, maybe she was upset in her own time. Just because it's not on screen doesn't mean it never 'happened'

[Easily confused]

Originally Posted by KatesFate

Why would Juliet not be mad about this?

she doesn't seem to get mad about anything

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Him

The weird thing is that I was under the impression in Season 2, and from the beginning of this episode, that Ben was merely assigning Ethan and Goodwin to create the lists based on their own judgement ("I want lists in three days"). That clearly doesn't seem to be the case when Ben's going on about how he dares not question the judgement of the apparent list-maker(s) (presumably Jacob). Immediately after it, he discusses Goodwin's campaign to recruit Ana-Lucia? I'm confused...

Incidentally, I do believe Ben in this instance, that Goodwin was trying to recruit Ana-Lucia - mainly because he also said the same thing to Ana-Lucia herself. Not to mention the whole flirting thing Goodwin and Ana had going on too.

I think there are TWO Lists Him, those whom Jacob wants and those whom the Others wanted. The Lists that Ethan and Goodwin were to create were simply a "Who's Who" of Survivors. Perhaps Ben can ADD to Jacob's List or talk Jacob into adding more to it? I am sure Ben does not need Jacob's permission for everything.

What if Jacob can sense if a person is "flawed" [as Mikhail said] and by trying to change Ana, Jacob would then add her to the List if he sensed a newfound Goodness in her.

Though as you say Him, perhaps Goodwin just wanted Ana for his own 'needs' shall we say. He had already cheated on his wife. I wonder what Jacob wants with the people on the List? Does he want them for himself or to allow Ben to recruit the 'best' and most 'trustworthy' people for instance?

Originally Posted by E.C.

Ben has got Juliet to look after the children because he is hoping that Juliet will want to marry him and then want to adopt the children as their own - a nice little ready made family

That is an interesting, though twisted, perspective on Ben's behalf. This means Ben's stating of Jacob's "demands" are often suited to his needs and no one is willing to accuse him of lying.

Originally Posted by KatesFate

Why would Juliet not be mad about this? Is it because she knows they are better off with the others while on the island? Wouldn't she want Jack and everyone else to go and get the children back so they could be rescued too?

Certainly something to think about. Why doesnt anyone want to rescue the children? Kate will go back for just about anyone. What is up with this?

Because then they have the responsibilty of looking after the children? It has been said a few times that the children are safe. Jack saw them [safely] with Cindy for instance. As for Juliette, perhaps she knows a little more than she is letting on, she HAS lied before.

[KatesFate]

originally posted by Reed
Because then they have the responsibilty of looking after the children? It has been said a few times that the children are safe. Jack saw them [safely] with Cindy for instance. As for Juliette, perhaps she knows a little more than she is letting on, she HAS lied before.

Yes, I realize they dont appear to be in any harm, however, I bet those two little kids would really like to be home with their real mom and dad dont you think?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Reed

That is quite amusing actually as Ben never has to explain anything he does as all he has to do is continuously repeat "Jacob demands it" or "because Jacob said so".

Regarding the List, we have heard Tom, Mikhail and Ben mention it and I still cannot make of sense of it.

• Tom regarding Jack - "Sheppard was not even on the List"
• Mikhail - "because you are not on the List...... you are flawed"

Anyone care to add to any mentions of the List?

My understanding has always been (well since 3.01) that there were TWO (if not three) lists. One was Goodwin and Ethan's (Ben effectively asked them to use their discretion in making lists in '3 days'). However the Others 'attacked' the Tailies before the three days were up - in fact they 'attacked' on the first night, which indicates that Ben decided to make his own list (using Mikhail's data on the plane passengers, perhaps?). I also believe that Jacob made his own list - one which 'Shephard wasn't on'. Which basically confirms Ben's list because he brought Jack, Sawyer and Kate to the Hydra because he needed his Cancer removed - and this certainly wasn't Jacob's orders..

So I think we have at least 2 (if not 3) lists.