Widmore Bought The Bloody Black Rock Journal!!

[D-Roc]

I would imagine that Tovard Hanso is Magnus Hanso's great great (?) grandson or something, Reed

What IS also interesting is that this suggests that the Hanso lineage is still alive, since it sounded as if Tovard is a 'living' relative. Shame he wasn't at the auction. I wonder if he's as interested in his family connection to the island and it's history?

I would assume that Tovard has never been to the island, but perhaps that is the wrong assumption.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Reed

Also, in response to Widmore not "hating" Desmond, well it was 1996 afterall; meaning Desmond and Penny broke up more than once. Desmond has been on the Island for 3 years and I presumed they broke up not long before. Then again Desmond was in the Army, so perhaps they REALLY did break up in 1996. I am slightly confused by this.

So we know that this meeting between Des and Widmore was before he was expelled from the military (as he had 2 days leave in this episode..somewhat convenient, TPTB ). But was it also before he went for the Interview at Widmore's office? It should be, cos didn't Widmore mention his leaving the army..

Hmm....

[Reed]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

I would imagine that Tovard Hanso is Magnus Hanso's great great (?) grandson or something, Reed

What IS also interesting is that this suggests that the Hanso lineage is still alive, since it sounded as if Tovard is a 'living' relative. Shame he wasn't at the auction. I wonder if he's as interested in his family connection to the island and it's history?

I would assume that Tovard has never been to the island, but perhaps that is the wrong assumption.

Just to sum things up, we know of Alvar and Magnus - the latter of is buried on the Island beside the Black Rock? - that was stated in S1 or S2 I remember. As for Alvar, I assume he is still alive? Perhaps The Journal never made it to the Island, hence why Tovard came into possession of it?

What is it he said that suggested Tovard was still alive? That is interesting because it could mean we eventually see a Hanso family member. IF he is alive then why do you suppose he auctioned the Journal; being that it MAY contain information about the Island. It is possible he is not interested in the Island and his family history, which is not a rare thing to come across.

[Reed]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

So we know that this meeting between Des and Widmore was before he was expelled from the military (as he had 2 days leave in this episode..somewhat convenient, TPTB ). But was it also before he went for the Interview at Widmore's office? It should be, cos didn't Widmore mention his leaving the army..

Hmm....

The time-line of events is rather puzzling for me. I always assumed they broke up not long before he left for the Island, purely because Penny was very emotional. Granted she was about to get married so perhaps they actually did break up in 1996.

From when Desmond left the flat [in The Constant; 1996] to when he is at the stadium with Penny [2001?], one would assume she was still rather freaked out by Desmond's strange behaviour at the flat. Though it is possible she still loved him despite this. Though why was she about to remarry? It is all rather puzzling, as usual.

I think you are correct there, Desmond had not joined the Army at that time, purely from my memory of Desmond walking past the Recruitment Centre in Flashes.

What does TPTB mean btw?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Reed

Just to sum things up, we know of Alvar and Magnus - the latter of is buried on the Island beside the Black Rock? - that was stated in S1 or S2 I remember.

Yup - on the blast door map

As for Alvar, I assume he is still alive?

I think he's in hiding somewhere, although I can't quite recall what the Lost Experience said about him. I think he went AWOL, however.

Perhaps The Journal never made it to the Island, hence why Tovard came into possession of it?

Hmm, but I would think for it to be reference in the show, it would contain vital info such as co-ordinates to the island. You may be right, I think it made it to the island -I think they also said that it belonged to the ships first mate - Alpert or Jacob, perhaps?

What is it he said that suggested Tovard was still alive? That is interesting because it could mean we eventually see a Hanso family member.

I can't recall exactly, it's just the manner with which the auctioneer spoke - he spoke as if it was being willingly auctioned by the person it belongs to - he made no mention of Tovard being deceased, for instance..

IF he is alive then why do you suppose he auctioned the Journal; being that it MAY contain information about the Island. It is possible he is not interested in the Island and his family history, which is not a rare thing to come across.

It could well be that the Hanso family is in need of the money..

I know Alvar was a munitions expert (made money through selling arms and weapons etc), so although it would seem strange for that industry to collapse, it does seem likely that Alvar become disillusioned with the role he was playing in world affairs (hence his orginal vision for the island), and sold the munitions arm of his corporation..?

TPTB = The Powers That Be (i.e. the creators Damon, Cuse and their team)

[Reed]

I watched The Constant last night and found out something interesting regarding the book. I also had some issues with the Desmond-Penny timeline. I think I will find the thread I made at the time and mention these things there.

Originally Posted by D-Roc

I think he's in hiding somewhere, although I can't quite recall what the Lost Experience said about him. I think he went AWOL, however.

While presumably funding D.I through the Hanso Foundation, Alvar Hanso is also a REAL person is he not? Which means he is not likely to appear in Lost.

Hmm, but I would think for it to be reference in the show, it would contain vital info such as co-ordinates to the island. You may be right, I think it made it to the island -I think they also said that it belonged to the ships first mate - Alpert or Jacob, perhaps?

Though the Freighters would not have made it to the Island if not for Jack intercepting the call - or perhaps it purely helped speed the process up so perhaps you are right.

However I discovered something interesting last night. The book was discovered amongst Pirates in Madagascar [or something to that affect] which brings into question Alpert - whom was dressed like a Pirate when he met young Ben. Alpert and his band of Pirates 'invaded' the Black Rock, caused it to crash and stole the book? Perhaps that is how the Natives found the Island?

Though perhaps the Natives owned the Black Rock, and for whatever reason one of Alpert's men stole the book and left the Island [i.e. a turncoat] as I see no reason why Alpert would get rid of the book as doing so would put the Island's existance in jeopardy. So many possibilities.

I can't recall exactly, it's just the manner with which the auctioneer spoke - he spoke as if it was being willingly auctioned by the person it belongs to - he made no mention of Tovard being deceased, for instance..

I wonder why on Earth anyone would sell the book given it's content. Unless of course the seller knew Widmore would buy it?

It could well be that the Hanso family is in need of the money..

I know Alvar was a munitions expert (made money through selling arms and weapons etc), so although it would seem strange for that industry to collapse, it does seem likely that Alvar become disillusioned with the role he was playing in world affairs (hence his orginal vision for the island), and sold the munitions arm of his corporation..?

However selling the book would put them in harms way as they would be making it clear they know about the Island.

How do you know about these facts, through L.E? What was his vision for the Island? Oh are you referring to what Marvin Candle stated in the original Orientation video?

[Magnovey Phoenix]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

I would really like to read that journal - I believe it belonged to the Captain of the BR - is that right?

Me too! Maybe we'll get a chance to see some "inside of it" in upcoming season. It's quite possible that Journal could reveal some mysteries there. Or make it more mysterious! I wonder if it mentions Black Smoke...

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Anyone catch his name? (and any betting Alpert was a member of the BR?).

Hahaha could be! He looked like a pirate when he was seen by Ben for the first time. Alpert Alpert...

[Reed]

Originally Posted by Magnovey Phoenix

Me too! Maybe we'll get a chance to see some "inside of it" in upcoming season. It's quite possible that Journal could reveal some mysteries there. Or make it more mysterious! I wonder if it mentions Black Smoke...

It could be a huge let down containing random 'doodling' by very bored crew members. Of course that is our worst case scenario so we had better stay positive. In all seriousness, the contents could contain a wide array of very interesting information. Even more interesting is that the book is presumably BEFORE the time of the D.I judging from evidence we have seen.

This is interesting because it means we will get to see an even older look at events than we have seen/been up to this point in Lost [i.e. Ben's flashback being the earliest I believe].