Villain of the week

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

I'm confused Roco, you're saying it's not so bad because Ben didn't actually kill Charlotte, but Sawyer didn't kill Ben either... Pardon my ignorance, but I'm confused to what the difference is.

That's one tiny strand of my argument though fbf.

Also, what I'm saying is that we should establish the facts and see that Ben didn't actually kill Charlotte - the tone of the debate seemed to bypass that fact - I'm just reminding the conversation that Charlotte is still alive

I know that Sawyer didn't kill Ben..but my point is that like Ben, he attempted to kill someone. However, Sawyer's attempt to kill Ben was less reasonable because whereas Charlotte was a direct threat to Ben, Ben clearly wasn't a threat to Sawyer - otherwise he would've saved on or those bullets for him

Also, what makes me laugh about Ford, is that he shrugs off Ben's probing of Karl, and seconds later he's ready to kill the man after he's received his own dose of gentle probing.

What a wuss

[firebreathingfishies]

But we're not sure why they want Ben yet. He could have been doing some majorly unspeakable horrors that we're not aware of yet. I just think Ben is very selfish, to the point that he will kill a stranger even when its obvious he's already pretty much screwed. Fair enough it's the island he's protecting, but i'm starting to think he's using it as an excuse to save his own hide time after time. Esp with Locke.

I sound like a Ben basher but these are all the reasons I love him

[Beach Crew]

Originally Posted by The_other_other

Yep. Sorry to break it to you beachy.

Lol, well ok then. But could you please, maybe, just explain to me a little more why Jack is a villain?

Also, it'll distract me from getting embroiled in a Sawyer debate, lol.

[The_other_other]

Well.. villain is maybe a bit strong, i guess i just didnt like his attitude towards the freighties in this episode.. stuff like leaving frank with juliet when hes the qualified doctor.. tbh i had to choose a third person and i couldnt think of anyone else. Any ideas? lol

[firebreathingfishies]

Locke or Miles would have been better bets They were a bit meaner than jack in this episode. I mean, come on! Miles scammed an old lady out of 100 quid and all the money hiding upstairs.

[Beach Crew]

Originally Posted by The_other_other

Well.. villain is maybe a bit strong, i guess i just didnt like his attitude towards the freighties in this episode.. stuff like leaving frank with juliet when hes the qualified doctor.. tbh i had to choose a third person and i couldnt think of anyone else. Any ideas? lol

Well I know what you mean, Jack is getting a bit....Sawyer-esque (the early days) atm, and so it's a bit of a change to see him so cross all the time. As for the Juliet thing, maybe she offered? And he did run to her aid when Miles went all crazy at her, lol.

I see what you mean about his attitude though. For someone who supposedly thinks these people will rescue him he doesn't seem very friendly/grateful towards them.

I would've picked Kate

[The_other_other]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

Locke or Miles would have been better bets They were a bit meaner than jack in this episode. I mean, come on! Miles scammed an old lady out of 100 quid and all the money hiding upstairs.

But i like locke and miles

and he did not scam her! He antighostified her house is all

and beachy to think i get people calling me biast allthough kate is pretty villainous

[firebreathingfishies]

But i like locke and miles

Originally Posted by The_other_other

hm trust me guys theres no character favouritism here

[The_other_other]

irony is lost on you fbf


Anyway, if miles or locke had tried to kill someone etc i assure you they'd be up there

[firebreathingfishies]

most things are lost on me T_o_o

Well I still think conning a poor old grieving lady is a bit more villianeous than being mean towards some strangers who you've been warned are not coming to rescue you point made, i'll leave

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by firebreathingfishies

But we're not sure why they want Ben yet. He could have been doing some majorly unspeakable horrors that we're not aware of yet. I just think Ben is very selfish, to the point that he will kill a stranger even when its obvious he's already pretty much screwed. Fair enough it's the island he's protecting, but i'm starting to think he's using it as an excuse to save his own hide time after time. Esp with Locke.

Yes, but it could equally be the other way around - as you said we just don't know. It's this ambiguity which gives him far greater understanding than, say Sawyer, who's motivations are clearly always selfish - he even admits it himself, so why his fans can't I just don't know

Whatsmore I'm operating under the ethos of the argument I am making - that is, I am giving you my reasons for my defence of Ben - should he step outside of those reasons and betray my trust in his good nature, then of course I will hose him down. But so far he hasn't, therefore I don't see the point in speculating what if this and what if that, because we can make that point against nearly every character who has slight ambiguity.

I don't believe that Ben is screwed at all. What gives you that impression? He's in a tight corner yet he still holds so many cards..don't underestimate him! Just look at how effective he is against the likes of brittle Karl, Rousseau, Jack, Sawyer and even Locke! No, Ben is far from screwed. It aso wouldn't make sense form a narrative POV for him to be so laid back and probing if there was no 'gameplan' involved.

I'm not denying that Ben sometimes protects himself - although since you're defending Sawyer, how can you slate anothe character for having a grain of self-interest? I mean, Sawyer's as selfish as they come..surely others are allowed their slice of self preservation cake?

My belief is that Ben is the best bet..he's working for incredibly important objectives, all of which makes him vitial - so what if he sometimes looks out for himself, someone has to "otherwise this whole thing collapses". And that, we don't want.