Official Episode 4.01 Discussion Thread

[Murgatroyd]

now i've read a lot of posts on different forums about people being really annoyed with this episode, saying it was pointless and confusing - especially the part with Jacob's hut and Niaomi crawling away. But i seriously think that it's been the best season opener since The Pilot.

I totally agree - I loved the stuff with the hut and I think the flashforwards give a show a real boost when it most needed it. I'm surprised it's not being better received.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murg

Ben's not an Oceanic survivor, so if he gets off the island that still leaves room for someone else from the 'plane. Same goes for Juliet, for example, or Desmond. I'm guessing the six refers to known 815 passengers only.
[/size]

Ah yes, very good point! - I had completely overlooked that..

Which in iteself presents an interesting device..because if the Oceanic six are keeping a secret (presumably about crashing on the island and there being more survivors?), then what would become of those who were not on the plane? Would they be forever in hiding..or did some of them manage to leave. It's perhaps worth considering that this could be a good platform for the man in the coffin, because the Oceanic 6 are seemingly 'celebrities' - the man in the coffin seems not to have that status (- yet Jack clearly had a connection with him), which could suggest he was not an Oceanic 815 passenger

Not sure how much sense that makes - I'll try to formulate a better explanation later!

[firebreathingfishies]

well i think if a non-plane survivor leaves the island they'll just say they were on the plane, because they are all obviously keeping a secret about who is left on the island. it would be too much hassle to explain why they had been there. imagine Desmond explaining he had been pushing a button for, was it three years? and ben saying he had been in charge of some crazy-ass community and killing a load of Dharma workers. I suppose Juliet could play the victim card, she'd been made to stay there against her own will, but still she would have a lot of explaining. It would just make more sense for them to lie, or go straight into hiding.
and the guy in the coffin could be someone we haven't met yet, like one of the freighties?

[Mrs Ferg]

Originally Posted by IM-LOST-WITH-LOST

I thought it was great, just annoyed by those adverts!

Couldnt agree more......what is with that? It is so hard to really get into it because the minute you do and add break comes up. There were 3 mins between that last set of ads and the close of the episode. Urgh! American TV shows have got worse in that respect. When xfiles was on the adds were never that bad.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Him

I didn't particularly like Ben being used as comic relief in this episode - not that he wasn't funny, but because it seemed to lose him his creepy edge. Last episode he was ominous while despairing at their calling of the boat, but now he's laid back and making wise-cracks? I was fine with it when he was in the hatch, and winding Locke and Jack up, but it seemed out of place here, as he doesn't have the upper hand like he did then.

I'm not so sure..I think Ben has a trick or two up his sleeve. He appeared to still have the upper hand on Jack..I think things are playing out as best can be expected for him. Note the look of suprise on his face when Jack lets him go with Locke..

[firebreathingfishies]

Ben definately knows what he's doing. He's laid back because he knows his fate, more than likely. He wants the others to know he's accepted it, but he's worked too hard on the island to let it all go to waste so quickly. i think he's working on Danielle.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by Roco

It's perhaps worth considering that this could be a good platform for the man in the coffin, because the Oceanic 6 are seemingly 'celebrities' - the man in the coffin seems not to have that status (- yet Jack clearly had a connection with him), which could suggest he was not an Oceanic 815 passenger

Yes, good spot - you'd think one of the 6, with their apparent celeb status, would merit more than a tiny newspaper clipping and a press-free viewing instead of a funeral. It's difficult to imagine who, out of the non-815 set, would want to leave the island though. Well, Desmond and Juliet clearly would, and Desmond could do so unproblematically (from an explanation point of view) because he simply got lost on his boat. But Juliet and anyone else affiliated with the Others would surely have to come up with some kind of a story, and perhaps that's connected with the 'secrets' that the 6 seem to be keeping.

(Re Firebreatingfishies' comment - I doubt anyone who wasn't on the 'plane could get away with pretending they were: there'll be records that make clear who was really on it.)

[firebreathingfishies]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

(Re Firebreatingfishies' comment - I doubt anyone who wasn't on the 'plane could get away with pretending they were: there'll be records that make clear who was really on it.)

okay, maybe not pretending, but RE the guy who visited Hurley - there are obviously people who know about the island and maybe they told the public Ben was on the plane. Conspiracy is more along the right lines.

[esn]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

esn - Hurley threw the radio away because Sayid said that Naomi's people were probably monitoring its transmissions. Sawyer seemingly disagreed and wanted to use it to warn Jack, but Hurley wasn't taking any chances.

Doh - knew I missed somthing. Thanks (and to Him for also pointing this out)

[JB Sawyer]

Haven't read this thread yet so sorry if I repeat anything that's already been said.

A very good way to open a season in my opinion. Better than the S3 opener (not necessarily the opening scene but the whole episode) and it was very good watching, even if it was on a blurry computer screen. Some interesting points were raised too:

• The Oceanic 6 - we know Hurley, Jack and Kate are three of them. It can't be Jules, Ben or Des as they weren't on the plane. My guess is the other three are Claire (as she leaves in a chopper), Jin and Sun (I don't think Aaron, what with him being a baby and not born at the time of the crash, would count).
• The two beings in the hut. It's quite clear that there is a figure in the chair when the eye is at the opening. Could this be proof that there is more than one form of Jacob?
• Is Hurley special as it would appear he can see the dead? Ben can see Jacob and also saw his mother, both of whom would appear to be dead. Hurley saw Jacob/s, and also saw Charlie...
• "I should have gone with you". Does this mean that the majority of Locke's group is doomed?
• Jack pulling the trigger - Jules actually yelled Jack's name. Could this mean that she possibly does have some remorse for Ben and doesn't hate him as much as she would like us, and herself, to believe?

Just some more general points:

• Sawyer already has the best line of S4 lol: "I'm doing what I've always done - surviving". Classic.
• I feel like I need to take a bath after this but I actually quite liked Locke in this episode. It too kme back to a long time ago when Locke was bearable.
• Speaking of bearable I think the final scene is the first time in history when a Jate scene was acceptable. It was actually quite...nice.

Overall a very strong opening. Bring on 4x02!

The Beginning Of The End - 9/10.

[lalaland]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

Ben's not an Oceanic survivor, so if he gets off the island that still leaves room for someone else from the 'plane. Same goes for Juliet, for example, or Desmond. I'm guessing the six refers to known 815 passengers only.
[/size]

could micheal and walt be included in the 'oceanic 6'? i am doubtful they were actually able to leave the island, but could it be a possibility? if that is the case that would only leave room for one more.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by lalaland

could micheal and walt be included in the 'oceanic 6'? i am doubtful they were actually able to leave the island, but could it be a possibility? if that is the case that would only leave room for one more.

Interesting question. If they did leave the island, Michael would have a reason to cover up his real story in case, as Ben suggested, information got out about what he'd really done (and I wonder if there's any connection there with Hurley's lying about having known Ana Lucia). Also, that doesn't tie in with Naomi's (and Cooper's) saying that no-one on 815 had survived. So I'm guessing either they didn't make it home, or they made it home but took on new identities.