You can't blame Ben really..

[D-Roc]

Well if this episode told us anything, it is surely that we cant really blame Ben for being hard on Karl. I mean, Karl and Alex are probably a little 'fruity' with each other..and Ben, as her father is obvioulsy protective over her..even moreso when you consider that women who conceive on the island end up dead - hence why Ben has had to keep Karl away from Alex and perhaps why Karl has had to spend so much time in Room 23 (to try and dispell naughty thoughts from his head?).

Infact it all makes sense and i for one am glad i waited before condeming room 23, because when your daughters life is at risk due to a bit of howsyourbenjamin, well..you can see why Karl is kept away from Alex and why Room 23 is a justifiable excercise..

[StoneRose]

If as ben says all mothers die before they give birth, then why the hell is Rousso still roaming about? Looks pretty alive to me.

And if room 23 is how all fathers protect their daughters from a boyfriend they dont approve of, well god help us all.........

[Easily confused]

I am sure Karl and Alex both know the consequences so will therefore be careful

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by StoneRose

If as ben says all mothers die before they give birth, then why the hell is Rousso still roaming about? Looks pretty alive to me.

Good point..though perhaps her delivery took place before a certain point in time..like an incident of somekind..afterall, Jules was only brought in 3 or so years ago. Also, i dont trust Rousseua..she lies.

And if room 23 is how all fathers protect their daughters from a boyfriend they dont approve of, well god help us all.........

Well, yes..in the real world maybe..but the island isnt in the idealistic real world..if a mans daughter is going to die if she has sex then of course that father would want to take measures to ensure that her boyfriend is kept at arms length. Some fathers would do that anyway..at least Ben is doing it for a justifiable reason..at least give the man that..

Originally Posted by Easily confused

I am sure Karl and Alex both know the consequences so will therefore be careful

Theyre teens..how may teens listen to their parents..have you seen the pregnancy rates all over the world? Im not slamming anyone for getting pregnant..thats not what im saying..im just saying that i can understand why Ben put the lad in Rm23 and why he doesnt want him near his flower. I also doubt that Alex and Karl would 'choose' not to make love because Ben said so..Alex is kinda rebellious..and Karl..well, he's kinda gormless..a do now, think later kinda guy..

[Murgatroyd]

First off, this is speculation: you don't know that Carl was being brainwashed and held captive and beaten, etc. in order to stop his having a relationship with Alex. Second... how about educating the pair of them in birth control before resorting to mind control? If Alex knows what's likely to happen, she's a fool if she isn't sensible about the relationship. If she ignores it anyway, that's her choice. So no. I see no justification for Room 23 in that particular argument.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

First off, this is speculation: you don't know that Carl was being brainwashed and held captive and beaten, etc. in order to stop his having a relationship with Alex. Second... how about educating the pair of them in birth control before resorting to mind control? If Alex knows what's likely to happen, she's a fool if she isn't sensible about the relationship. If she ignores it anyway, that's her choice. So no. I see no justification for Room 23 in that particular argument.

Likewise, many of you guys didnt know that he was in there for no good reason as was claimed..funny that, huh

I think the idea that Karl was in Rm23 in order to purify his thoughts and thus prevent him from murdering Alex (cos technically thats what would happen) is far more likely.

Birth control? As i said above..have you not seen the pregnacy rates in this world? Im not knocking anyone cos a child is a gift, but at the end of the day, when you're in Bens position and your daughter will die if Karl gets his way then, whats a man to do, lol? I dont think Birth control can be relied upon in this situation...do you And i cant believe (imo) you're being so casual about the prospect of a mans daughter dying (the same daughter who you normally stand to protect)..this is Bens daughter..he can rely on her 'choosing' not to sleep with karl because this is no ordinary situation..there are no 'ifs' or 'maybes'..if she has intercourse with Karl, she *will* die..now surely you can understand why Ben would do his upmost to prevent this..it's not as if she will merely get pregnant..no..it's more than this..his daughter will die if she and Karl get fruity. Any father would do their upmost to prevent his daughter from dying..it's not about 'choice' because she is only 16 and also her fate would be sealed if she did get fruity with karl...there are no ifs and maybes in this circumstance..this aint the real world y'know

[StoneRose]

How do you know Rousso lies?


Alex wont die if she has sex, there is a possibility she might die if she becomes pregnant. Educate them on birth control. Dont locke the boyfriend up in room 23. My dad was extremely concerned when my sister and I began dating, he was extremely worried, he didnt lock our boyfriends up in a room so we couldnt have sex.

How iis bens actions justified?

[Easily confused]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo

Theyre teens..how may teens listen to their parents..have you seen the pregnancy rates all over the world?

teens in the real world face a much less chance of dying from pregnancy

I am sure Alex being told "if you get pregnant you will die" is a good enough reason for not getting pregnant and don't forgot she will have know women in the community who had died from being pregnant and realised that she is most probably not immune

[Murgatroyd]

I can't think of a good reason for brainwashing.

Anyway, this particular issue isn't unique to the island. Lots of girls and women can't get prenant without putting their lives at risk: those who tend to have ectopic pregnancies, for example, or people with damaged wombs from previous pregnancies. Not once have I ever heard that used as a justification for a father's brainwashing and holding captive his daughter's potential suitors. His daughter would have every right to first call the police and then to say that it was entirely her business what she chose to do with another person, not his.

[haelle03]

Or Ben is just mean!

[Easily confused]

Originally Posted by haelle03

Or Ben is just mean!

and selfish and weird and stange and creepy

[StoneRose]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd

I can't think of a good reason for brainwashing.

Anyway, this particular issue isn't unique to the island. Lots of girls and women can't get prenant without putting their lives at risk: those who tend to have ectopic pregnancies, for example, or people with damaged wombs from previous pregnancies. Not once have I ever heard that used as a justification for a father's brainwashing and holding captive his daughter's potential suitors. His daughter would have every right to first call the police and then to say that it was entirely her business what she chose to do with another person, not his.

Brill Murg!!!

Completely agree.

[The_abbott]

I always gave Ben the benefit of the doubt but recently his actions have sickened me. So I am leaning towards putting him on my hate list. Hes played really well and I don't think hes evil but I do think he has his own agenda rather then looking out for man kind.

[IM-LOST-WITH-LOST]

The first paragraph made me laugh, you cant justify what Ben did to Karl Just because he's in love with his 'daughter.'

By the way, did anyone notice that Ben said he was born on that island and has lived there all his life (this was said when ben questioned locke on how the island liked him better)

[Lost Lewis]

Originally Posted by IM-LOST-WITH-LOST

By the way, did anyone notice that Ben said he was born on that island and has lived there all his life (this was said when ben questioned locke on how the island liked him better)

Yep, and to me the whole 'woman die if they give birth on the island' idea isn't making sense. Theoretically Rousseau gave birth on the island, and theoretically Ben was born on the island. Also, we know Claire has given birth on the island - yet apparently that's due to the drugs they given her. Hmm...is the underlined statement actually true? I don't know why they'd be lying about it (something to do with Sun maybe?) and I can't explain a lot of things such as all of Juliets work on the pregnant woman but surely it's a possibility that the statement isn't true?

On topic, I can't actually say a lot about Ben putting Karl in the room; but to me I think brainwashing is wrong in almost any situation. Especially when it can be handled with in a different way.