Talking to the island

[D-Roc]

Did anyone else find it interesting how Locke built his sweat lodge inside EKo's Church...an interesting piece of symbolism there methinks ..and not just that but we see Locke trying to talk to the island in a way that one (Eko for example) would talk to God.. I suppose we already knew that the island was (in a way) Locke's God..and it fit's nicely with him returning to 'Hunter' status..being one with the island and all of that. But what does it say when it was Anthony Cooper who taught him how to hunt.. ..and didnt he once refer to himself as "God"..? There's probably nothing in that but i do find it interesting nonetheless.

Also, i found it interesting how Locke said grace in his flashback..now i knew Locke was a varied fella but I never had him down as a religious man. NOt saying that this makes him religious but it did give me a broader opinion of Locke.

Furthermore, the fact that both Eko and Locke's dreams (or visions whatever you want to call them) turned out to be true..what does this say about the other visions and dreams - like Charlie's about Aaron's impending peril for example.. do all of the island dreams hold truth and value, or are some more malicious than others? Im mean, have we seen any lostie dream/vision that has been proven to have been false yet?

(Just a couple of loosely linked thoughts there )

[Pynch]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,November 28, 2006 10:29 am

Did anyone else find it interesting how Locke built his sweat lodge inside EKo's Church...an interesting piece of symbolism there methinks ..and not just that but we see Locke trying to talk to the island in a way that one (Eko for example) would talk to God..

Definately interesting....

I saw it as a kind of joining of faiths? Eko is clearly rooting his faith in Christianity/Catholicism, while Locke's faith is.... well..... more loose???

Meditation is not something the church particularly encourages (though I know its not unheard of - many works of art show people in meditative states conversing with God), and so it originally seemed to me a little blasphemous for Locke to be doing this within Eko's church....

But in keeping with a general theme of Lost - it seemed to me that Locke and Eko's different faiths were actually to be seen as one faith, that they both believe, regardless of what structure that takes, or who that belief is directed at (God, or the Island).....

does that make sense??

[Losty]

This is my question...


If Boone is now Locke's messanger for the island....who was his one when Boone was alive? Was it still Boone? Because the 'falling down the stairs' thing could answer that...

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Pynch,November 28, 2006 05:55 pm

Definately interesting....

I saw it as a kind of joining of faiths? Eko is clearly rooting his faith in Christianity/Catholicism, while Locke's faith is.... well..... more loose???

Meditation is not something the church particularly encourages (though I know its not unheard of - many works of art show people in meditative states conversing with God), and so it originally seemed to me a little blasphemous for Locke to be doing this within Eko's church....

But in keeping with a general theme of Lost - it seemed to me that Locke and Eko's different faiths were actually to be seen as one faith, that they both believe, regardless of what structure that takes, or who that belief is directed at (God, or the Island).....

does that make sense??

Yes, I agree..the joining of faiths..what one faith helped construct..another faith must finish. It was a brilliant way to illustrate the re-joining of Eko and Locke. It also perhaps illustrated the idea that faith is faith..no matter the ideology..be it faith in Christianity, science, luck, whatever..it was a good way to pose the idea that to have faith, prayer, meditation etc all have similar traits, that being the value of looking inward, admitting to one's sins and cleaning up ones own mess (putting right the wrongs). Well, thats what i derived from that whole church/sweatlodge/meditation scene

I suppose Locke's faith is more loosely defined than Eko's..Locke seems to believe in alot of things - he said so himself back in 1x19 when Claire asked him if he believed in Luck - "I believe in alot of things". I did find it interesting how the island (or whoever) seemed to be presenting messages to him in Christian/religious format. I know Eko's is Christian and so the Jesus Stick thing makes sense..but the scripture was also Christian..yet Locke is not (well, he did say Grace but thats not cannon). Did the island know that Locke would understand the value and meaning behind that scripture, i wonder? Or perhaps the island can only guide a person so much? Perhaps the island can only present guidance and messages in the form of the person they are using to 'channel' that message - in this case Eko. Perhaps if the island had used Hurley as a medium to pass on a message to Locke then the message would've been more number orientated? hmm

I suppose some will see Locke's using of Eko's Church to meditate as disrespectful or whatever..however, technically prayer is a form of meditation i believe. People pray in churches to communicate with God and meditation enables a person to gain clarity and communicate with God, themselves....the island ..I guess there are always those who have an issue with other beliefs an that.

Yes, I agree..Locke and Eko's faith certainly seemed to be one..or at least that seemd to be part of the message being delivered to Locke (and the viewer). In away it parallels with S1 and how it was suggested that Jack and Locke's opposing ideologies were infact more similar than they (or Jack) knew. I suppose it comes back to the 2 sides thing..in that dark and light (representative of opposing sides that are actually one, in my view) working together and forming as one. And as you mentioned be God or the Island, the idea that faith is faith no matter the structure is a very powerful message, i feel. I loved how Locke seemed to embrace Eko's faith and how Eko seemed to embrave Locke's faith (with his hunter reference)..though to be fair that probably was the island speaking through Eko. But still, great stuff..cant wait to see these two men's stories develop. Wait til Eko get's his strength back..it'll whop ass time!

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Losty,November 28, 2006 08:22 pm

This is my question...


If Boone is now Locke's messanger for the island....who was his one when Boone was alive? Was it still Boone? Because the 'falling down the stairs' thing could answer that...

I think Boone is merely a 'device' used by the island to deliver the island's message. Just as Yemi and Ana-Lucia were to Eko back in 2x21..

I think that the island (or whoever is controlling it, if anyone actually is) is Locke's guide, if you will. The island is able to somehow use the dead, in the form of whispers, dreams, visions etc to influence island events..

Thats not to say that i think the dead are just tools without their own minds and objectives..it's just that those that the island has chosen to use (Yemi, Boone..) genuinely do want to help the losties and are able to 'cross the line' from the deadside, into the lan dof the living because the island has special properties which heighten conciousness and thus allow the dead to influence events. So basically I think that Boone was chosen by the island because of his strong connection to Locke, Locke's deep rooted guilt about what happened to Boone and because Boone wanted to help his old mentor.

Thats not to say that all of the dead people have good intentions..

Well, thats my view in answer to your question. I think the main thing is that the island is and always has been Locke's guide..it's just that it uses different tools and devices to get it's message across..imo.

[Audio Pineapple]

I was just thinking - what if Locke mediating within the church space was later supposed to be contrasted with Eko's death. It wasn't the joining of faiths but Locke's faith overtaking and surpassing Eko's religion.

Also - Eko made the church (as we now know) because he wanted to make things right with Yemi. Locke admitted in LTDA that he was wrong with turning his back against the island/hatch so perhaps he was creating his sweat lodge to apologise to the island because he felt that he owed it after nearly destroying it.

[St. Anger]

Hmmm I'm not sure what to comment on here as you guys have made lots of good points... however it is odd that Locke used Eko's Church for the sweatlodge and it can only be made sense of if we assume that Eko's spiritualness can be compared to having general Faith on the island. In other words, Eko's Christianity = Locke's Island Faith, i.e. the equivalent.

The island is very mystical and is quite a spiritial place and I guess this ties in with the religious side of spiritualness. Whatever the case may be, Locke's attempts to connect with the island on that exact spot [where the Church is] proved successful.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Audio Pineapple,January 19, 2007 08:02 pm

I was just thinking - what if Locke mediating within the church space was later supposed to be contrasted with Eko's death. It wasn't the joining of faiths but Locke's faith overtaking and surpassing Eko's religion.

Also - Eko made the church (as we now know) because he wanted to make things right with Yemi. Locke admitted in LTDA that he was wrong with turning his back against the island/hatch so perhaps he was creating his sweat lodge to apologise to the island because he felt that he owed it after nearly destroying it.

Interesting, on some levels i agree with you because Eko has always displayed unwavering faith on the island..never..not once on the island have we seen him doubt his faith (if memory serves)..and so, as Locke's faith is reformed (post hatch implosion, Boone visitation etc) and is now strengthened to such an extent that it's stronger than it's ever been imo. So in a sense Locke faith has replaced Eko's. Not that its stronger than Eko's because imo Eko's faith is still 10 times more resolute than Locke's is (simply because he hasnt doubted it whislt on the island)..but because Loce's faith is now at a level where the island wants it to be.

So symbolically, yes, not only did Locke build his lodge (spiritual temple) inside Eko's Church (spiritual temple), but his faith has also been reformed (and/or derived) from Eko's faith..since it was EKo who led him to the question mark, Eko who told him to have faith in the button and Eko who essentially taught Locke that faith is faith..you gotta believe or it isnt faith. I think Locke knows that now.

Though of course this is a show that works on many levels but i dont think Eko's death was a requisite for Locke's re-strengthened faith. As it appeared that the island would've spared Eko had he begged for forgiveness for 'all' of the things he'd done in his life. So i guess metaphorically Eko's passing is like a passing of the torch.

[Road Trip]

Right the thing that is bugging me is the fact the Church isn't finished.
But I supose that was always going to happen in a way, people will start stuff and just leave it or give up as there are more important matters to attend to.

[Audio Pineapple]

Eko seemed to abandon the church once he had the button instead and I doubt that Charlie has the capacity to finish it off by himself.

[Mrs Ferg]

I agree, interesting. I think Lost is all about symbols so I definitly agree that there is a significant reason why Locke built his "tent" in Eko's church. Prehapes he felt a connection there because they both shared the same "faith" in the sense that they both believed in something spirtual.

[Toby]

The whole thing bugs me. The islands guiding Eko. But to what? Lockes failure and then Ekos death? I think that when he was talking to Yemi he did something wrong. I dont know. But that wasnt right.

Hmm, I guess Locke was trying to find Eko, so he went in his chruch to connect to him?

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Road Trip,January 23, 2007 07:20 pm

Right the thing that is bugging me is the fact the Church isn't finished.
But I supose that was always going to happen in a way, people will start stuff and just leave it or give up as there are more important matters to attend to.

Yeah thats true..I also think it's in reference to the idea that Eko lay down the foundations for Locke's faith to become complete - hence the building of the sweat lodge inside the structure of the Church perhaps being sybolic of that.