Kates and her handcuffs

[hundredand8]

Something is bothering me about that handcuff scene in "A tale of two cities".

She puts them on herself at the breakfast table. The next time we see her Tom locks her up in her cage, and he makes a big fuss about her bruised wrists. Just so that we, the viewers don't miss that.

So how did that happen? Must have been a hell of a breakfast with Ben there, fighting over every single strawberry And we know she had that breakfast, she still tastes like strawberries the next day

Seriously, there is a scene missing from that episode. So maybe we will get a "Maternity Leave" type Kate flashback episode one day to resolve it, or the whole thing was fake. I mean fake as in Ben has already won her over, and she is playing the part of the prisoner. It could be her equivalent of Sawyers pacemaker scene.

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by hundredand8,February 10, 2007 01:02 pm

Something is bothering me about that handcuff scene in "A tale of two cities".

She puts them on herself at the breakfast table. The next time we see her Tom locks her up in her cage, and he makes a big fuss about her bruised wrists. Just so that we, the viewers don't miss that.

So how did that happen? Must have been a hell of a breakfast with Ben there, fighting over every single strawberry And we know she had that breakfast, she still tastes like strawberries the next day

Seriously, there is a scene missing from that episode. So maybe we will get a "Maternity Leave" type Kate flashback episode one day to resolve it, or the whole thing was fake. I mean fake as in Ben has already won her over, and she is playing the part of the prisoner. It could be her equivalent of Sawyers pacemaker scene.

Yes, I agree that there was a missing scene - our attention is also drawn to the fact than something happened other that Kate's merely having been handcuffed for a long time when Sawyer asks her and she bursts into tears instead of giving a straight answer. That certainly wasn't normal wear-and-tear, or handcuffs would have to be redesigned pronto - it looked to me more like the sort of wounds you'd get from struggling or from being suspended by the wrists. I hope we do find out, but it's hard to imagine how, narratively speaking, that can happen.

[D-Roc]

Yeah thats something that has bugged me for a while. I always assumed that she had been dragged by the bears or something..or that she'd been held down whilst Juliet extracted a fertility sample from her (or something ).

Eitherway she was clearly distressed and it probably had something to do with the 'unpleasant 2 weeks' that ben warned her about. Im sure it was necessary though, Ben has looked after her and even Zeke has treated her remarkably well.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,February 10, 2007 01:06 pm

I hope we do find out, but it's hard to imagine how, narratively speaking, that can happen.

Island flashback i suppose

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,February 10, 2007 01:12 pm

Im sure it was necessary though, Ben has looked after her and even Zeke has treated her remarkably well.

Yes. Yes, these past few days for her really have been more or less like a short and inordinately well-catered break at the Savoy, haven't they? ...

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,February 10, 2007 01:13 pm

Island flashback i suppose

It was such a short spell of missing info, though - island flashbacks have thus far been reserved for extended gaps such as Michael's foray into the jungle in search of Walt and Claire's kidnapping, both of which lasted for days or weeks. Whatever happened to Kate must've taken place in a matter of hours.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,February 10, 2007 01:14 pm

Yes. Yes, these past few days for her really have been more or less like a short and inordinately well-catered break at the Savoy, haven't they? ...

Well compared to her life on the main island, i think that even she'd agree that being with Ben is miles better - she's tasted the delights of strawberries and cream, coffee, other snacks..shes also had Sawyer and fish biscuits. I didnt see her complaining in the cages ..she looked the happiest ive seen her for a long while..and thats thanks to Ben and his people

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,February 10, 2007 01:15 pm

It was such a short spell of missing info, though - island flashbacks have thus far been reserved for extended gaps such as Michael's foray into the jungle in search of Walt and Claire's kidnapping, both of which lasted for days or weeks. Whatever happened to Kate must've taken place in a matter of hours.

True, but then looked at the short Juliet flashback that we had at the start of the season - they could simply incorporate one flash into an episode, revealing what transpired..

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,February 10, 2007 01:24 pm

Well compared to her life on the main island, i think that even she'd agree that being with Ben is miles better - she's tasted the delights of strawberries and cream, coffee, other snacks..shes also had Sawyer and fish biscuits. I didnt see her complaining in the cages ..she looked the happiest ive seen her for a long while..and thats thanks to Ben and his people

You've been watching a different programme then, if you've seen a contented woman who enjoys manual labour, exposed conditions, pain, privation, watching one of the men she loves under constant threat of murder, etc. I've seen her hungry, fed up, miserable, in pain, furious at her captors, fearful on Sawyer's behalf, desperate to get away (staying only because she doesn't want to leave her companions alone), terrified, and once embracing what she thought was going to her last shot at transcendental happiness.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Murgatroyd,February 10, 2007 01:27 pm

You've been watching a different programme then, if you've seen a contented woman who enjoys manual labour, exposed conditions, pain, privation, watching one of the men she loves under constant threat of murder, etc. I've seen her hungry, fed up, miserable, in pain, furious at her captors, fearful on Sawyer's behalf, desperate to get away (staying only because she doesn't want to leave her companions alone), terrified, and once embracing what she thought was going to her last shot at transcendental happiness.

I didnt say she's enjoyed every aspect of Benism..of course there are going to be aspects which arent to her taste..but if you compare the sqauller she was living in over ion the main island and the relative luxary that she is residing in now, then...

Also, she's got her man..that wouldnt have happened had it not been for Ben (so ive got one axe to grind with him ). From her POV, she has got what she wanted. For now

[E Pluribus Unum]

lol this is the 2nd time I've seen KoR argue that strawberries and dresses remove the fact that she was .. (see Murgs post for a list of *lovely living situations* lol)

If I had been in Kate's position I would have told Ben where he can stick his strawberries and his dress

And at least on the other island she had freedom and freewill, something we all take for granted and something she has very little of locked up in a bear cage..

A choice? In that situation I'd choose the beach...

In my opinion Ben only MADE her wear the dress and offered her strawberries to show his position of power, so it wasn't even out of the goodness of his heart - oh and let us forget that he also promised her "2 weeks of unpleasantness"

Back on topic though; I'm not sure what to make of the handcuffs+bruises, perhaps it was the writer’s way of implying that Kate retaliated or lashed out in someway...

I suppose they could do it via a flashback, however I think it would have to be an 'others' flashback as, like has already been said, it's only the one scene - it's not like we're looking at several missing days...

[hundredand8]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,February 10, 2007 07:34 pm

Back on topic though; I'm not sure what to make of the handcuffs+bruises, perhaps it was the writer’s way of implying that Kate retaliated or lashed out in someway...

I suppose they could do it via a flashback, however I think it would have to be an 'others' flashback as, like has already been said, it's only the one scene - it's not like we're looking at several missing days...

It could also be done like in the opening of S2 where we get to see how Kate and Locke get caught by Desmond in the second episode, whereas she is already in the pantry and he is already at gun point by the end of the first episode.

[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by E PLURIBUS UNUM,February 10, 2007 08:34 pm

lol this is the 2nd time I've seen KoR argue that strawberries and dresses remove the fact that she was .. (see Murgs post for a list of *lovely living situations* lol)

If I had been in Kate's position I would have told Ben where he can stick his strawberries and his dress

And at least on the other island she had freedom and freewill, something we all take for granted and something she has very little of locked up in a bear cage..

A choice? In that situation I'd choose the beach...*

In my opinion Ben only MADE her wear the dress and offered her strawberries to show his position of power, so it wasn't even out of the goodness of his heart - oh and let us forget that he also promised her "2 weeks of unpleasantness"

Haha, it's not that strawberries and coffee make up for everything..it's just that in the situation they were in..well, what would you do for strawberries, coffee and potential freedom if you had been through what they had? Me..heck, id jump at the chance to be in (for example) Jacks position should i be stranded with no other chance of getting home. Ben..is a Godsend..he really is and it's about time the likes of Kate, Sawyer and Jack realise this and thank him for giving them the opportunity to go home. They do want to go home...right? (i know only Jack has been offered this chance, but im sure Ben would be fair to all of them in time..afterall, he's a fair man and an upstanding gent)

If i had been in Kates position, i would've rambled away about life, philosophy and general chatter with Ben and his wonderful mind. What an opportunity to delve inside the mind of a genius..id probe him (so to speak )

Hmm, but thats the thing..WAS Kate 'free' did she have 'freewill' on the other island? To me she was trapped..trapped by her past..now at least she has stopped running..that to me would indicate that the girl has never been so free..so healed..so fixed. Ben..I salute you..you genius you!

I'd chose being in Bens company..the beach sucks.

Yes, 2 weeks of unpleasantness, 2 weeks which are now almost over - heck, it's been worth it..she been made to feel like woman again, she been allowed to bathe (thank God ) and she has got her fill of the man she lusts. What more could a girl ask for, in that situation.
Ben had good intentions..yes he wanted to get himself healed, but he still had good intentions. He's a great man people..he GREAT man

[Murgatroyd]

Originally Posted by KoR-evo,February 11, 2007 11:21 am

Haha, it's not that strawberries and coffee make up for everything..it's just that in the situation they were in..well, what would you do for strawberries, coffee and potential freedom if you had been through what they had? Me..heck, id jump at the chance to be in (for example) Jacks position should i be stranded with no other chance of getting home. Ben..is a Godsend..he really is and it's about time the likes of Kate, Sawyer and Jack realise this and thank him for giving them the opportunity to go home. They do want to go home...right? (i know only Jack has been offered this chance, but im sure Ben would be fair to all of them in time..afterall, he's a fair man and an upstanding gent)

If i had been in Kates position, i would've rambled away about life, philosophy and general chatter with Ben and his wonderful mind. What an opportunity to delve inside the mind of a genius..id probe him (so to speak )

Hmm, but thats the thing..WAS Kate 'free' did she have 'freewill' on the other island? To me she was trapped..trapped by her past..now at least she has stopped running..that to me would indicate that the girl has never been so free..so healed..so fixed. Ben..I salute you..you genius you!

I'd chose being in Bens company..the beach sucks.

Yes, 2 weeks of unpleasantness, 2 weeks which are now almost over - heck, it's been worth it..she been made to feel like woman again, she been allowed to bathe (thank God ) and she has got her fill of the man she lusts. What more could a girl ask for, in that situation.
Ben had good intentions..yes he wanted to get himself healed, but he still had good intentions. He's a great man people..he GREAT man

For one thing, as you point out, Kate has not been offered freedom. Her freedom as it was has been drastically curtailed by her being forced to sleep in a cage and work to timetable during the day, so she's in no way materially better off that she was back on the beach - where her time was her own, she wasn't in immediate fear of her and Sawyer's lives and she had access to food other than fish biscuits (and one round of strawberries and coffee doesn't in any sense make up for several days of fish biscuits).

But even if Ben had kidnapped her and then furnished her with comfortable accomodation and good food, and then told her she could go home on condition that she did as he asked, but if she didn't - and untill he decided otherwise - she had to live by his rules... if I was her, I'd still tell him to bog very sincerely off. The point is that she's been kidnapped and owned and bought with clothes and food and the like, in exchange for her submission and, perversely, her gratitude to a man whose impinged upon her freedom and her rights not to live in a cage off the whims of another human being. Can you not perceive of being stolen and then put into even favourable conditions (which is totally hypothetical, because no way is her current situation better than her previous one) without your specific permission is a form of abuse? What matters is not how Kate is being treated (badly) so much as the fact that she's being treated in a way she's not consented to and totally against her will. These people do not want to be where they are. That's enough to make what Ben's doing totally wrong.