[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by Keeping Pace

Part 3 of 7



With Widmore's comments on how the Island used to be/still is his, I have a sneaking suspicion that either a) he was a joint partner with Hanso, b) was the on-Island manager of the Initiative, or some combination of the two. Either way, since the Island moved and the Purge occurred he’s not been able to find it, until of course he explores the relation to the Black Rock that he somehow knows about. Widmore buys the ship's ledger at the Southfields auction that a consciousness-jarred Desmond witnesses in 1996 (The Constant), and from it he gleans enough about the location to send his motley crew and mercenaries on the Freighter… But not before having successfully planted a staged wreck of Oceanic 815 where he could claim he was searching for the Black Rock: in the Sunda Trench.

I certainly agree with Widmore's ties to Hanso/Dharma. Isn't he a philantropist? Or at least that how Libby described him (if I remember correctly), and so it would seem that he invested heavily in projects, such as those which the Hanso Fnd. and the D.I. were dabbling in. I would even go as far to suggest that Widmore was the person to turn the wheel before Ben - perhaps Ben conned him or double crossed him in someway, meaning that Widmore 'had' to turn the wheel and relinquish the island. This could also explain why he cannot find it, and perhaps why he didn't attend the island search him and why he seemingly has no interest in preserving the island (Keamy was instructed to "torch" it in the 2nd protocol guidlines).

As for the fake wreckage - I still have a sneaky feeling that it was Ben's doing, but of course I accept that it could easily be Widmore. For the same reasons - to divert real-world attention from the survivors and the island.

There ya have it... Polar bears and the Island's tumultuous recent past. But I'd be remiss if I said that's all I thought of TNPLH. In all honesty, I keep returning to that Frozen Donkey Wheel, and those of you who listen to the official podcasts from Darlton know why. In previous seasons Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse (exec producers, writers, and the co-creator/show runner of the show, respectively) gave us the codename of the secret/momentous scene in the finales: "the Bagel" (Season 1), "the Challah" (Season 2), and "the Snake in the Mailbox" (Season 3's mindf*ck of a flash forward reveal). This year's finale, however, they practically handed the moment to us on a silver platter with "the Frozen Donkey Wheel," since that was, quite literally, what we saw used as the device to move the Island. Being the masterminds that they are, and seeing how amazingly genius it was to dare hiding that moment in plain sight, I began to re-evaluate some of the other statements that the dynamic duo have made publicly about LOST to see if anything else jumped out at me. Lo and behold, after seeing all the sci-fi that this show exudes, I have to point to what Darlton have called the series time and time again. Whenever the issue of canonicity has come up, the show itself has been referred to as the “Mothership.”

YES! I like where (I think) you're going with this.

Now, I know what you’re all thinking: the Island being a spaceship was a theory debunked by Damon ages ago. Well, I'll get to the truth of that towards the end, but for now I'll point to the following... Consider for a moment that The Powers That Be initially denied Aaron being a member of the Oceanic 6, leading to wild speculation about who the final member was right up until a promotional clip from ABC revealed him to actually count. The writers and show makers wouldn’t just acknowledge if someone figured out a key element of the series, plain and simple. They’ve said it themselves, and this has been further proven by the fan inspired theories reviewed by Darlton, where the two have picked and rated the speculation of fans not based on accuracy, but rather imagination. (Just look up “What is the Smoke Monster?” on Yahoo Answers and see who they picked out of 8,000 some-odd results, as well as their own comments on the matter… not to mention their more recent U.S. Weekly theory ratings.)

They certainly give themselves scope for mannoeuvre don't they!

In this latest installment of the show, Locke specifically said “It isn’t an Island…” to Jack. And though John may not know what it truly is (yet), or simply have called it “a place where miracles happen,” I bet he’s right about that first bit. Which brings us back to the Mothership. If the “Island” is really an spaceship which crashed on Earth in ancient, possibly even prehistoric times, that would explain quite a lot, to tell the truth. All the earthly vegetation and such could have built up on it from being derelict for so long, effectively masking the ship as the Island we’ve come to know and love. It would allow for various cultures [read: the Hostiles/Others] to have come across it and made it their home or some holy site, which would account for what appears to be the ancient evidence of human culture: the Ruins, the door to Ben’s Smokey-Summoning Chamber, and perhaps even the Temple and Four-toed Statue).

Let me just say that I really like this..I might not agree with it entirely, but let's just say that our thought patterns are from the same galaxy, if not the same planet. That is, I don't think that the island is a 'spaceship', rather the thing which sparked it possibily came from outer-space. I'm thinking more along the lines of the island being a hybrid..with an 'alien' organism of somekind crashing on to the (rather normal) island in a kind of 'big-bang' theory kind of way.

That said, I certainly agree with the ancient civilisation take on it..whether the island is/was and actual spacecraft or whether it's actually a hybrid (part alien, part earth).

And as it was so astutely pointed out to me, Darlton, when pressed for the location of the series ending, said “Somewhere just outside the Crab Nebula is where it will all end, geographically.” (The Crab Nebula, incidentally, seems to tie into some recent themes and characters of Lost… most notably in the form of Rudolf Minkowski — nephew of the space-time theorist Hermann Minkowski who our George was a nod to — discovering the star responsible for the nebula and noting that it had an extremely unusual optical spectrum, an observation eerily reminiscent of Daniel Faraday’s comment: “The light here… It just doesn’t scatter quite right, does it?”). More importantly, though, a spaceship would give precedence for (if not explain) much of the otherworldly things like the electromagnetism and time travel-causing negatively charged exotic matter.

That's certainly interesting and it does support your (and my) argument in terms of the island being either a spaceship or a hybrid of somekind.

I dunno about the rest of you, but Ben cranking that wheel definitely sounded like it started something like turbines to me... and I couldn't help but remember most ships on Star Trek use "anti-matter" in their warp nacels to achieve faster-than-light travel). Can you say propulsion system? And don’t even try to deny that the smoke monster has been acting very similarly to the alien(s) of the “The Abyss” — (for those who don’t know, in the movie there was an alien made out of what seemed to be a column of water that began to mimic human form when one of the characters touched it, which afterward projected images of humanity’s barbarism to a hero in his final moments and then reanimated him for sacrificing himself to save its kind. Change the water to smoke. Sound familiar?) Jacob could even possibly be the last surviving member of the original crew suffering the time-ravaging affects of the crash, or maybe the ship’s malfunctioning AI navigation; a holographic representation (in human form) that’s actually the ship's systems. Comparisons with Rommie from TV’s “Andromeda” come to mind, though Lexa Doig is much more fetching than our ghostly cabin misanthrope.

There's certainly alot of 'pop-culture' references thrown in there, and so I agree that the creators could be harking back to inspirations from their own TV heydeys, and in doing so they could be revealing some of their hand in regards to the alien/space origins of the island.

I should also add that the sound of the wheel turning (or rather the anti-matter or EM that it was charging also reminded me very much of the hatch implosion which follwed Desmond's turning of the key. Obviously similar things happened from both turns..

Interesting thoughts on Jacob there! My first theory on ihm (now seemingly debunked..or perhaps not..) was that he was a computer (this was before we had seen him etc)..but perhaps your thoughts on him beiing A.I. could salvage this notion? Anyway, some good ideas there..I've also began to think that perhaps Jacob pre-dates Dharma..after all, doesn't Mittelos? Not sure how important this might be, but if we're trying to decipher the origins of the island, it might give us potential clues.

My thought is that the ship is from far into our own human future

— so far in the future that it seems alien — in which case Ms. Hawking and the other enforcers of time are the people responsible for the Island, explaining and giving credence to her cryptic words to Desmond: “If you don’t [push that button], all of us are dead.”

Aha, so you're also going with the time-loop idea - an aspect of LOST which i fully endorse. It's certainly interesting to look at loops (or would you deem this time-travel?) in this way. What was it Faraday said about time and 'perspective'? The same could apply here, because as you say - something from our own future could appear 'alien' to us...indeed, so much so that it actually appears 'normal' to others, like Jack, who continue to deny the magnificence of "the place where miracles happen"

Take of this what you will, but rest assured that at very least the polar bears are a mystery solved, and be confident in the knowledge that DHARMA moved the Island to the Black Rock’s location, which Widmore used to track it down in the South Pacific. Whether you believe the rest of this and buy into a future human explanation, one thing is certain:

We now know that many of the mystical and mythical elements of the show come from the bowels of the Island. The electromagnetism emanating from beneath the Swan, exotic matter far below the Orchid, and the tunnels/vents that are used to summon/release Smokey are all deep, dark secrets indicating that, if nothing else, the knowledge of what we’re dealing with will only be revealed by either taking a leap of faith or digging for answers...



Continued in Part 4...

Again, i'm not so sure re: the Polar bears being a mystery which is "solved". Having bears push the wheel seems to lack the credibility that the show usually produces. Not saying your theory lacks credibility because I fully appreciate the ideas and support for those ideas that you have provided..but something just doesn't seem right re the bears, as I've stated in previous posts. But I digress!

I could certainly buy the suggestion for the BR ending up on the island.

I love the 'leap of faith', 'digging for answer' bit - very nice touch.