[lost-lover]

Originally Posted by D-Roc

I'll come back to this soon when i have more time.

But i should crucially point out that Ben didn't murder over 50 people - the only person he murdered was his father. Seeing as Sawyer and others have been let off for multiple crimes I think the double standards lie not with me nor Ben.

Okay, I'll leave Sawyer out of the debate for now, it's easier to focus on Ben.

Originally Posted by D-Roc

The Dharma purge was not Ben's decision, remember..nor did he partake in the purging - that's pretty much canon..

This purge argument just keeps coming back.
I'd like to remind about the Tempest, which we know Ben has used before to kill people. Back to the Dharma purge, even if Ben did not actively partake in the purge, he knew of it and did nothing to save any of the Dharma members, even his buddy Annie. He was also happy to use it to get involved with the Others. Pretty cold-blooded, really.

Originally Posted by D-Roc

If you were refering about Ben's "so?" regarding the peeps on the boat, let me ask you..Keamy has just killed your daughter..brutally executed her with a bullet to the head and left her body to rot. you've had to bury said daughter and her blood is still fresh on your hands. Jacob has just shafted you and Keamy is proceeding to taunt you over his execution of your beloved daughter. Now..would you really give two scoops about people on the boat - some of which are Widmore's people out to harm you/the island, and the rest who are too blind too see the bigger picture and watched as Jack pounded your butt into the ground 20 odd days ago?

Okay fair enough, he'd not be thinking straight. But I still don't think he can use Alex's death to cover for letting so many people die. True, many of the people on the freighter work for Widmore and therefore wanted to capture him. But Keamy was the main mecenary after him and Ben had just killed him, not to mention the group Keamy had brought with him to the island. Surely that eliminate's a rather immediate part of the threat?
I can understand that, despite that, he'd still want the man who killed his daughter to die, but it was callous of him, after Locke pointing out what would happen to the freighter and it's inhabitants, to just "So?" and leave them to their fate. That's really remorseful, Ben!

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Sorry, I can totally understand Ben's repsonse here - at that moment in time he was enraged over Keamy's taunts..who in their right mind would not be too enraged to be selfless as that point? I don't think I would have been in the right state of mind to be thinking about Losties who don't give two hoots about my dead daughter..

also, we should be giving Ben credit for actually turning around and apologising for not being able to seperate emotion from logical decisions.

We've all had fits of rage and then turned around and regretted it - Ben's jsut had the most extreme things happen to him..surely we can let him off not putting the boat first.

See above for my reply to this.

Originally Posted by D-Roc

Also, he did alot of good for Sayid and Kate in this episode - yet I don't see anyone championing him. He also helped Locke and fulfilled his final duties with great courage and dignity..imagine what it must have been like for him to have Jacob toss him to one side..imagine what it feels like for a kitten staring down the headlights on an open road. Ben was basically kicked out of his own house - abandoned without a word of thanks or see you on the other side. He didn't know where he would end up upon turning that wheel, as it was he ended up in Tunisia and had to immediately fight for his life, after puking his poor little guts up. The man is a warrior..he deserves much more credit that he's been given. he's emerged from the season as the silent hero, the man who's done all the work for Locke, the man who's acted with grace and dignity, the man who's suffered immense heart-arch and loss, the man who's been cast aside..the man who was right all along..the man who you all doubted. Yet here he is, still fighting the good fight..rounding up his children as he prepares to take them back home to the promised land.

Sure, Ben did good helping out Kate and Sayid, letting them go from the island, but I can't help notice he showed no remorse when he knew they were heading to the freighter he'd just let explode.
I can't really argue with him helping Locke either, that was very good of him, he just seemed to except it, then again he's known for a while I guess, since the visit to Jacob's house, so he's had time to get used to the idea.
About his "rounding up the children" - nice wording by the way - I'm not sure about this being him "fighting the good fight" in the flashforward. As I've said in my previous post, I can't help but wonder whether or not, whatwith Locke being dead, if Ben is hoping to reclaim leadership of the Others. After being told by Jacob that he can't go back to the island because he was the one who moved it, is he still allowed back?I'm of the view that Ben will only be allowed back if he returns with all of the Losties, dead or alive, who have left. I can't help but think that he's justmanipulating their circumstances. Jack's having a breakdown, Sayid's now Ben's assassin, Hurley's having chess games with the island's victims, Kate and Aaron are living a lie, and I think Sun may be working with him too. So why not just take the ones who want to go back, rather than trick the relucant ones into coming along too? Does he need them if he is to achieve his of returning? After all, leopards don't change their spots.
That'll do for now.