[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by esn

I have to stick up for Roco here.

1) Ben wasnt responsible for the Dhrama masaccare, he was only responsible for the killing of Roger. Other people gave the order.

2) Ben may be saving the world here.

Exactly..

But on the other hand, and why Roco does need to crictise Ben more:

1) He still took part in an act of genocide

Can you genocide one person?
Perhaps Ben did know about the plan to purge the Dharmacats..however I suggest we use caution as i'd hate to see history repeat itself. All we know for sure is that Ben killed Papa Linus - which seems to be a requirement of the Island. However I wont get into that, killing Roger was indeed wrong, as if it needs to be said..but if it makes some people happy, then yes that was wrong. But this is not what we're debating here - no-one is disputing his hand in Roger's death. People are somehow still arguing that Ben DID kill 'Dharma'. I respectfully disagree with those people and will give thread bumpage at somepoint in space and time.

And for those who claim that Roger is Dharma - look at it this way, if someone killed Sawyer, would they have killed 'The Losties'?

Back to the role in genocide thing..if we are going down that route, can we 'now' blame Hugo for running over and murdering Pryce? Seeing as the same could apply to him..not to mention the rest of the L-cats who were apparently "bystanders" in the genocide of the Others a season or so ago

2) We only know Bens side of events - and he could be lying, and has Ben himself pointed out, the island allowed him to get sick, where as it made John get better.

As I said in an above post, you could be right..however I seriously doubt this is the case. This is not meant in a disrespectful way (as I know it could be misconstrued), but watch that scene again - look at the idignation and absolute denial Ben delivers - this is a man who doesn't break sweat when he tells half-truths. Ben is certainly not lying here..he has no need to at this point. I've got a degree in Benology - I think he is as good as his word here..the scene just doesn't warrent any smoke and mirrors..this was one episode when Ben was his most 'open' - "destiny is a fickle B-yatch", sharing the candy with Hugo (etc) - this was a raw and de-masked Ben. There was certainly no mind games in operation imHo.

Also, yes the island allowed Ben to get sick and vice versa Locke - however what has this got to do with Dharma? The purge was years ago..I don't think we should confuse the island's 'punishment' of Ben and the whole Dharma purge thing..

Originally Posted by Reed

What was interesting in that scene was the choice of words.

Ben was NEVER the Leader of the D.I - though he insinuated he was.

So who was the Leader of the D.I? Horiss? I think not as he was a Mathematician.

I think you misunderstand - Ben meant that the leaders of 'The Others' purged the D.I. - those leaders probably being Alpert and Jacob-types.

The insinuation is that Ben eventually became the leader of the Others..but at the time of the purge, he wasn't their leader. Hence he didn't order/initiated/particpate directly in the purge of the D.I.

As for the leaders of the D.I., well we know they it was the brainchild of Karen and Gerald DeGroot. We also know that Hanso brought them and their 'initiative' to the island, and that Marvin Candle appears in all of the Orientation videos and seems or seemed fairly high ranking. We should also bear in mind Charles Widmore - perhaps he was a silent leader, operating from beyond the curtain, as it were. So it depends what we mean by leader..we have a few options..however as for Ben, he never said he was leader of the D.I.

Originally Posted by IM-LOST-WITH-LOST

Who say's you can trust Ben's word!? He's the biggest liar EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I get the feelings that you dont like Ben.
Someone on the Internets clearly doesn't like Ben. This is just not on ILWL!

I also think we can take the 'Ever' font up a notch..and can we throw in some red and emphasise the 'R'?

I'm joking of course. One day you'll change your mind. I'll patiently wait