[D-Roc]

Originally Posted by IM-LOST-WITH-LOST

What has there enviroment got to do with Lockes leadership? You could have the worlds worst leader in Locke's position, but they would still get the food and the wine, that doesnt make him a good leader. How he treats his people determines if he is cut out for leadership status.

Um, because it was Locke's decision to go to the Barracks..they wouldn't be living it up in a safe and pleasant environment if it wasn't for Locke. They are ALL there because of Locke and his leadership.

Locke treats people fine - if they respect him and his rules then he's the nicest bloke..and that's how it should be..one has to earn respect.

Kate deserved to get spoken to like that - she endangered everyone and did it all for her own selfish reasons - people like that are not welcome under Locke's community - it's his gig, not Kates..who is clearly only there for her own ends. Just ask Ford

I know he's only been doing it for 3 days, and i will see if he can prove himself as a good leader, but for the time being His skills are terrible, especially compared to Jack's first 3 days. Jack had just been through a major traumitic experience, but still risked his own life trying to get the black box from the cockpit during the first night. The moment that he landed on the island, he revived Rose, and saved other people's lives, ignoring his own wounds. These are great examples of honoury leadership skills, as he put other peoples lives and needs before his own injuries. All that weve seen locke doing is stating he doesnt run a democracy like Jack, and throwing grenades into peoples mouths. Not very leaderish if you ask me.

But you're not comparing like for like - it was easy for Jack to lead in his first 3 days..things were broken and he was naturally suited to fixing them. We're now 100 odd days into this thing, and Locke is rising to leader - a totally different proposition in far more murkier and unpredictable times. Let's take any other 3 day period from Jack's rule and 9 times out of 10 you'll find that he's cocked it up - from disbelieving Claire re: Ethan, to making that call, to refusing to give Sawyer medication, to assisting in the torture of Sawyer, to refusing to treat Locke's head wound...need I go on? Jack is good when he's saving people, but equally he picks and chooses who he saves. He's a terrible leader who's gift is also his curse.

Why are you using plural, when Locke *inserted* (not "threw") one grenade in one persons mouth Also, Jack doesn't run any kind of Democracy - the difference is that Locke is able to admit it.

Ben isnt vilified for shooting Charlotte, we dont know her motives or what she was even going to do with ben.

Ben was well and truly hammered after he shot Charlotte..

More to the point, if you think miles should be up there for blackmail, and jack should be up there for lieing, why isn't locke up there for torture?? If you dont agree with the term torture, fine, mental torture.

I've explained this dude..see the first and subsequent posts I sincerely believe that the multiple offenses of the other people are worse than Locke's one offense in sticking a grenade in Miles' mouth - let's not forget that this is Miles' mouth and not another person - the same Miles who found it dandy to blackmail Ben..the same Miles who is "exactly where I want to be", the same Miles who deserves to be punished for what he did. He's not exactly the sort of person I feel sorry for, considering his earlier arrogance..

As E Pluribus Unum has stated, We dont know Kate's motives for having Aaron, is she not heroic for at least giving him a good life.

No! Cos we don't know her motives, LOL!! You're assuming that it's for some good reasons, but we simply do not know and I'm not happy to parade her as a "hero" on the basis of this large assumption. How is 'assuming' she's being selfless equate to her being 'heroic', when there are other characters who are clearly being more heroic with no assumption needed? I truly do not get this logic, ILWL..especially when you're calling me biased over Locke, lol

She stated that she wasn't good with children, so why would she care so much for Aaron? She puts him before men, and showed genuine care and emotion towards him. She didn't use him in the court case to try and help her case. Plus character wise, she showed alot of hatred towards Jack's lie, which shows that she's sorry for leaving the rest of the survivors behind. I believe they are much more justified than the heroic reasons in the other thread, Imo.

Holy crumbs, I sincerely do not get this - so you say she was angry over Jack lying for her, yet..YET she still allowed him to lie and didn't come clean herself..and to completely negate your point, she goes on to berrate her mother for not wanting to out right lie for her! So why is it not okay-ish for Jack to lie for her, yet totally fine for Diane to lie for her - do the two not cancel one another out??

I think you have Kate-tinted glasses on ILWL () - cos none of that is heroic..oh, and let's not forget all the bad things she did in this eppy..yet you're happy to point out Locke's one indiscretion and cite this as enough to make him a villain? Whaaa??